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Car fire is out, do you cut the battery cable?
Today we had a car fire where the fire kept in the engine compartment and the dash board until the engine arrived and extinguished the fire. Once the fire was out I went to cut the battery negative cable as I was taught, to ensure nothing shorts out int he now exposed wires, and there's not accidental airbag deployment later (like when the Wrecker driver is releasing the Parking Brake).
The IC told me not to cut the cable because it would screw up the insurance investigation since the owner said she had just had electrical work done. I followed the order, but I think the IC made the wrong call. Couldn't any insurance investigator tell the cables were cut after the fire was out by the clean copper which would be showing? Or if it was noted in the report that we cut the battery cables?
Is it SOP in most departments to cut the battery cables after a car fire is out?
The IC told me not to cut the cable because it would screw up the insurance investigation since the owner said she had just had electrical work done. I followed the order, but I think the IC made the wrong call. Couldn't any insurance investigator tell the cables were cut after the fire was out by the clean copper which would be showing? Or if it was noted in the report that we cut the battery cables?
Is it SOP in most departments to cut the battery cables after a car fire is out?
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by John Crabbe on
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A couple things stick out here. First off is the order, OK, fine, you followed orders no biggie. I would agree that if noted that the cables were cut it wouldn't matter for an investigation, it isn't like we keep power on inside a house fire because the owner said there was an electrical problem.
As from a wrecker driver standpoint, chances are they won't be going inside the vehicle anyway, it is easy enough to unload a vehicle without having to go inside.
For the most part, not cutting the cables would be that big of deal, but for our guidelines, we would cut the cable. Then again, that is why they are guidelines, to give the flexibility.
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Permalink Reply by Jonathan on
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Never cut the cables unless you are unable to disconnect them with a socket or open-end-wrench. Do the least amount of damage as possible. Just like letting the air out of the tires, don't pop/cut/slash the tire, pull the valve stem or use a tool to bleed the air.
-Jonathan
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Permalink Reply by Ron King (Fire Chief) on
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I always carry a batt wrench in my pocket. Try to remove the cables if possible.
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Permalink Reply by James Altvater on
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OK, some good points.
I realize there's like a 1:10,000 chance of anything shorting out, or an airbag deployment post fire, but isn't there also about a 1:10,000 chance of a bumper flying off during a fire, and isn't that why we approach from the sides? Just in case this is that one in ten-thousandth instance?
As for unscrewing the cables...why? That makes about as much sense as pulling nails when we strip drywall in a structure fire. We are talking about a car which is clearly already destroyed by fire, the wiring harness is a mass of spaghetti on top of the engine block and all the wires are exposed. Do we spend a lot of time finding a little wrench (which size? Does the battery have clamps on post on top, or screws into the side?), leaning over the former engine compartment and turning wrenches, or is it better to snip the cable a half-inch or so from the post/terminal?
For me the bottom line is this: If we can mitigate a risk, even a slight risk, by removing the power form the vehicle, then mitigate the risk.
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Permalink Reply by Oldman on
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In many newer vehicles, there is a "black box" so to speak which records many operating parameters of the engine, drive train, braking, and several other operating conditions. These have a volatile memory causing the memory to be erased if the power is lost for a few hours. Most insurance investigators won't get to the vehicle for days.
There could have been an electrical problem related to the recent repairs as the owner states, or it could be a separate issue in another part of the vehicle. This might be what the IC was thinking about. It could make a difference whether the company that did the repairs on the electrical system is responsible for the repairs, or the owners insurance company pays. That is why there are insurance investigators in the first place.
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Permalink Reply by Greenman on
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Event Data Recorders (EDR), introduced in the early 1990's and present in all new cars (although not required by law until 2013 model year [ 49 CFR part 563]), typically only record data in an airbag deployment "event" as in almost all passenger cars and light trucks they are part of the airbag control module. Without an airbag deployment, there is no data written to the EDR (the controller makes the decision as to airbag deployments in a milliseconds ~ less than the time of an eye blink).
EDRs used flash memory. that is the same type of memory used in "thumb drives" "memory sticks" and other portable data storage devices, in other words they do not require power to retain memory. If the fire wasn't caused by an airbag deployment event, there would be no data recorded in the EDR to retrieve.
Whether cut or unscrewed, it wouldn't make a difference to the EDR.
Greenman
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Permalink Reply by DUST on
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Remember too whether you cut the battery cables or disconnect them, the free ends should be folded back onto themselves, wrapped with tape, and secured away from any metal.
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Permalink Reply by Shareef Abdu Nur on
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As the Officer, I always instruct our crews to cut the cables at a car fire for the very reasons that you brought up. And yes, any insurance investigator worth his/her weight in salt could easily tell where and why the cables were cut especially after he/she read the report. Good documentation is critical in all cases.
So, by my department's standard, you are absolutely correct. Another thing that I would like to add is whenever you cut the cables, be sure to make two cuts so that the exposed wires do not accidentally make contact and charge the electrical system of the vehicle.
You followed orders and that was correct. Now, perhaps you can ask your Officer about it and offer your reasoning. He/she should be very receptive and accomodating because you actually followed their orders.
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Permalink Reply by Volker Brammertz on
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After a carfire we remove or cut the cables, also we to that after a car crash.
We to that automaticly and we havn't some problems with the insurance investigator.
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Permalink Reply by ashfire on
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We had responded on a car fire and had disconnected the battery cables and told the driver to call a tow truck. Got back to the station and got a call for another car fire at another location but in the same area.
Got on the scene and its the same car and driver. The driver reconnected the battery and drove the car home and completed burning out the engine compartment. This time we cut the cables.
Had another call where a woman was driving a car on the highway and it caught fire. She had to be pulled out by a passing driver. We put the fire out and she got in to try to start it to drive away but we had cut the cables.
Always the the nuts out there that will make you wonder when you show up.
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Permalink Reply by Jason Brooks on
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If the fire is in the engine compartment, then cutting battery cables is the least of the owners concerns.
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