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Do We Really Need To Drive Code 3? FDNY Does Not Think So... Do You?
Firefighters in Queens Won’t Rush to All Calls
A million times a year, fire trucks are driven into the streets of New York City, usually at breakneck speeds with lights and sirens blaring. The rush is often critical: Firefighters converge on fires, douse the flames and save lives. The same response applies in less serious situations — calls that are not life-threatening, which are expected to reach around 230,000 this year after steadily rising from 41,054 in 1969. But with 35-ton rigs barreling through red lights and forcing traffic off the roads or through busy intersections, accidents occur, sometimes with deadly consequences. Nearly 700 times last year, the city’s fire trucks collided with other vehicles and, occasionally, with one another. Now, for the first time, the Fire Department is re-engineering its approach: Its plan, set to begin on Monday as a three-month pilot program in Queens, is meant to slow firefighters’ responses to certain calls by having them turn off their lights and sirens and follow the usual traffic rules.
(Read the entire New York Times story...)
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Timothy D. Stone Jr on
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I agree with what you have to say. In my department we may not respond 15 to 20 times a day but...It can be 15 to 20 times a week sometimes. We dont always go code three. Lift assits in wich the pt is in no real danger (according to them) is not a oh sh#$ we have to get there now. Now a 5 month old laying in the floor and is turinng blue, unless its a smurf baby, is a OH SH#$ GO. But we still drive with all due reguard. Yes we may run Flash Flash Whoo Whoo more times than not. But in twenty years we have had no MVAs. ( I am sorry if my spelling is not great.)
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Permalink Reply by Just Plain Craig Moyer on
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My issue with this that we really never know what we have until we get there. We've had several FA's that turned into working alarms and multi alarm fires. A child locked in an auto can go from bad to wrose very quickly.
As a person who drove for years my thoughts were "its already on fire and will go out eventually so I might as well get there safely. I would slow down enough to be able to stop quickly going through red lights or major intersections. I had to be able to see at least 100 feet either way before going into an intersection. ONly had one close call and it was I was going too fast to slow down and the old lady didn't pull to the side.
One thing that drives me crazy is the officer that sits with the siren going full blast 4 in the morning and theres nothing on the road for miles.
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The top pic isnt of FDNY is it? It says South Jamaica on the front windows. Or is that some where in New York. Im from Georgia. Aint Never Been That Fer North lol
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Permalink Reply by Paul Montpetit on
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Craig...been there done that....I have actually been a "bad boy" I even offerred to pull over and let him (officer) drive once when he couldn't keep his paws off the siren and air horn.....Kind of got "spoken to" by the Chief after this one......But then at the next meeting the word was given to cut down on the lights and sirens on calls...I think the term used was "Use your heads"
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Permalink Reply by Mark Klaene on
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I have a CDL and in my opinion it adds nothing to making me a better driver. The only thing the CDL is useful for in my opinion is the air brake info and I make my guys understand that anyway. The CDL written test I have seen is 90% unrelated to what we do in the fire service
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Permalink Reply by Wade Seely on
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We have a tiered system where we don't always run code 3, it is all based on dispatch information, and we try to limit the use of lights and especially sirens at night when traffic is not an issue. I realize that "Big Cities" are a different story when it comes to traffic and response times, so if they need the warning devices, whatever, it doesn't have to mean you're hualing ass.
TCSS
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Permalink Reply by Brian Mackie on
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Yes very good point! There were some studies a while back, ok, a lot while back, I am not sure by whom, but it showed that when emergency services drivers use the SIREN, the natural tendancy of the driver, is to try and keep up with the rhythm, thus increasing speed. After I read that study, I tried it myself with another driver, and sure enough, as soon as I turned on the siren, the heavier the foot of the driver got.
I am unsure if that study was including the all mighty Q, (which in my opinion.. is the greatest siren on the planet, and every FIRE APPARATUS should have them.... sets the difference between EMS, Police and FIRE,,which has nothing to do with this discussion..just my opinion) but at that time the electronic wail/yelp was the issue.
There are those here on this site that will argue that speed has to be reduced, and there are others who are hell bent on keeping the "tradition" of screaming trucks alive. I suspect that most of the guys and gals that have the need for speed are the younger ones, and the older farts that have experienced the bad over the years will see the light...ooops.. not the apparatus lights either.
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Permalink Reply by Jack/dt on
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Sometimes, shit just happens.
We had a near miss recently where we were responding code, traveling east bound and approaching a major 4-way intersection (traffic signal controlled). The east bound lane the engine was in had 2 left turn lanes, 1 straight through and 1 straight/right turn lane. At the time the 2 left lanes had cars stopped and only the far right turn lane had a car, the straight through lane was empty.
Intersection was approached (Opticon was working), engine crossed the yellow line to pass the waiting cars on the left (per protocol), paused at the light to ensure control of the intersection and then turned right (southbound), going around and in front of the cars in the 2 left hand turn lanes. As the cab was clearing the intersection there was the sound of squealing brakes. A vehicle had come barreling down the one open lane and at the last second, as the engine was passing in front of that lane, they had to lock up their brakes in a panic stop. They hadn't seen the engine until that last second. They didn't hit the engine or anyone else but I'm sure the driver's seats had a damp spot.
Everything had been done correctly but, had the car not been able to stop in time, the engine would have been t-boned (and yes, everyone had their seatbelt on). The moral to the story; sometimes even when doing everything right, shit can happen.
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Permalink Reply by kevin marcellin on
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its a section in Queens.
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WOW!! Thats how you feel about us from NYC??
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Permalink Reply by Tony P on
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You need something like this part of our SOP's Paul:
7. The driver shall have control of the siren, beacons and flashing lights.
Makes things much easier. I've told crew leaders to keep their hands off of 'my' controls...
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Permalink Reply by Vic Silverfish on
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Tony, in the US there are three (sometimes four) audible alerting devices on a fire engine: electric siren (like we have here), air horns, and a "Q" - basically a small air-raid siren (the long wailing noise that only American trucks make). The air horns and Q are both manually actuated, and are controlled by pedals so you may not want the driver messing with them. Usually the driver drives and the officer plays with the noisemakers.
BTW - the fourth device is a bell. We used to have them and in MD they are still legal, although they are almost never used. You can see it on the bumper in this picture:
http://www.cpvfd.org/gallery/main.php?cmd=imageview&var1=100_23...
That round thing on the port side is the Q.
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