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The Good Ol Boys of the Firehouse
I havent been around the fire service for a very long time, just about a year now. Ive been through mandatory training, Firefigher 1 and 2, and EMS Academy. Being surronded by all of this training makes me realize all of things that some of my officers do that really arent that safe. Now don't get me wrong, I have all the respect in the world for these guys, they have definatly put in their share of time, some of them 30 years or more. Normally I don't say anything to them and just kinda let them do their own thing while making sure that I stay safe. A few nights ago however, my department had a barn fire. The structure was completly involved by the time we arrived on scene. Our fire tactics immediatly went to defensive becuase we knew the building was old and could collapse at any time, which it eventually ended up doing about 45 minutes into the call. Getting back to the officers, My safety officer of all people told me to grab a pike and rip down the side D wall. This was a one story structure about 10 to 12 feet tall. Now i know through training that ur supposed to have a pike pole at least 1.5 times the size of the wall ur ripping down, so i would have needed a pike that was at least 15 feet tall to tear down that wall safely. The problem is the longest pole my department has is 12 feet. I questioned the officer and told him that i didnt think it was a good idea considering the lenght of the pike. He said that was fine and just make sure that everyone stays clear of that wall becuase it now looked like it could collapse at any second. My point is, don't do something that you dont think is safe on the firescene, now really; nothing on the firescene is really safe but dont be afraid to at least question an officer when you know for a fact that the command they gave you is going to directly put you in harms way. Like I said earlier, I have all the respect in the world for my officers but I think sometimes they need to get the good ol boy attitute out their heads and start doing things that make a little more sense.
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Comment by Mike David on May 16, 2008 at 6:00am
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Now you challenge me on my qualifications? wow. talk about attitudes.
Dustin,
I'm not talking about the length of a pike pole or what happened at that fire. I'm talking about the chain of command. It's quite obvious you are not a member of a big city department where this applies.
The last thing an officer wants to hear from you at a fire is a quote from the IFSTA manual. Of Course you are not going to use a 10 foot pole on a 10 foot wall. Does an Officer have to tell you to go and get a pole that is 1.5 times the size of a wall? No. You go get one yourself. You should have simply said "okay, I'll get a longer pole" and the Officer wouldn't have said a thing.
If you can't do a job for any reason, improvise, adapt, or in your case, go and get a longer pole - just get it done. He gave a simple order for a simple job. You know where your tools are on the apparatus, go get what you need, then comply. Common sense.
As for your last remarks, all I can say is my comments were meant to give you advise. My qualifications? If you would seriously like to know what they are you can contact me at madmyk.com.
Good luck Dustin.
And don't forget - Keep your eyes and ears open and your mouth shut.
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Comment by Dustin J. Millis on May 13, 2008 at 6:09pm
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Oh mike just one more thing, just wonderin if you have even taken FF 1 and 2 or are still using the FF 1st and 2nd class as an excuse. If so, they changed it for a reason man, its time to do some continuing education
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Hey Mike, just wanted to say thanks for showing everyone that reads your comment exactly the kind of attitude im talking about. exactly like lutan said, i was taught by a certified instructor that i an REQUIRED to use a pike poke 1.5 times the size of the wall im tearing down. By the way, pretty much everyother officer onscene agreed with me. so if im 10 feet away from a 10 foot wall thats coming down, something def sounds unsafe to me. So do me a favor and open your eyes before you get someone killed. RULES ARE THERE FOR A REASON
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Comment by lutan1 on May 13, 2008 at 4:48am
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Ease up a bit Mike!
Obviously at some stage he's been taught a method that was deemed safe by the isntructor at the time and he didn't feel safe when a different way was ordered at a scene.
1 year or 25 years in the service, EVERYONE has the right to question when it comes to their own safety, especially if it appears to contradict what they've been taught....
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Wow! With 'All' your training and 1 year of service you sure seem to know a lot. When I was a hired full-time 25 years ago my Dad told me to keep my mouth shut, ears and eyes open. I guess you missed that day?
It may be an old saying but any piss kid that adhere's to that policy will do okay. Sorry to tell you there kid, but you don't know sh..
Barn fire? What are you going to teach your Captain and senior firefighter when you're looking for a fire in a multi-level brick storage building?
You say you have all the respect in the world for your Officers?
Doesn't sound like it to me. "Old boy attitude out of their head?" "Time to start doing things that make more sense?" "All my training makes me realize they're doing things unsafe?"
You've only been on a year and you think they are doing it unsafe and wrong?
Man! you've got some balls there kid!
Trust your Officers, they've been to more fires than you've eaten hot dogs.
They can read a fire before you get off the rig. They're thinking about a dozen things at once and 10 of them you've never heard of. Sure, they're human, they do make errors but as an old boy Batt Chief said to us once, "That house fire could have been fought 20 different ways by 20 different companies". In the end, they all accomplish the job at hand -
and without a hotdog piss kid questioning them.
Take my Father's advise there Bud - Keep your mouth shut. You're young, you have a career of learning ahead of you. Listen and watch your Captain and senior man. Neither of them are going to put your life at risk and order you to do something they wouldn't do themselves.
Now, get off your computer and hit your books instead of acting like you've been on the job for 10 years.
P.S. Print this post out and save it. 25 years from now you can show it to your new piss kid.
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Comment by Allen Wahlstrom on May 9, 2008 at 9:52am
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If you are defensive why are you pulling down any side of a fully involved building?
Im lost...
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You ALWAYS have the right to say no if you don't beleive it's safe....
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Comment by Matthew Cosgrove on May 8, 2008 at 1:22pm
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What else have they done to make you feel this way? I will admit that the rule of 1.5 times the size of the wall souds new to me. I'm sure its true but I don't recall it. I use a geral rule on a scene as a Lt. I won't ask someone to do something that I wouldn't do or stand by tham and assist in doing. I love my dept because as Lt I go in the building, rescue, or where ever we are going and I run the show inside. I get the word from my capt. or command, than I lead my team into what ever we are doing. There are times where I know an order is a bit off but I do as I am told and I expect the same from my fellow firefighters.
Don't get me wrong if it is a real bad idea like going into a house that is falling over and 100% involved I won't go nor send my men. But we must trust our officers and work with them. What I have found that helps is to work with the training officer and set up classes on the things you see being done in an unsafe manner. Stay safe -Matt
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