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Preconnect or Booster Reel?
I am a volunteer firefighter in rural georgia, and my department has always used our 1 1/2 preconnect as our primary attack lines. But while running mutual aid I have noticed other departments prefer to use booster line. I can see the convenience of booster line, its lighter, more maneuverable, and its a heck of alot easier to load on the truck. but on the other hand, you are sacrificing gallonage that may be necessary in the structure. I know each department is different, and have their own SOGs, so i would like to know what your SOGs say and what you prefer.
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Vic Silverfish on
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I agree that canvas is the only way to go for a structure. If the fire is still very small, there should be a "hook and can" man nearby to knock it down. Besides, it's a lot easer to just crack a 1 1/2 to get a little water than it is to get caught short with a 3/4" booster!
In Europe, I think they have high-pressure booster lines. Does anyone here know anything about them? Has anyone fought a serious fire with one of these? I'd love to know how they work. Most of what we saw back in the day was walk-up apartments, so I'll always be a big fan of canvas hose you can flake off your shoulder as you work your way up stairs and around obstacles.
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Permalink Reply by Shareef Abdu Nur on
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There was a time when many FD's used booster reels as a 2nd or even 1st attack line for interior structure fires, but that was many years and many NIOSH reports ago. We now know that we need at least 150 GPM for an interior attack and most booster reels do not provide this amount of gallonage.
We do not use booster lines for any interior attack. We use booster reels or the "rubber line" for some vehicle fires, trash fires, and/or brush fires.
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Permalink Reply by David Earl Gregory on
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No sweat Trevor. Having been years ago where you are now, there's a totally different set of SOP's than a lot of these folks here are used to dealing with. Sometimes, ya gotta go wit what ya got. If you roll up on a fully involved structure, common sense dictates the booster ain't gonna cut it. On the other hand, you pull up and there's a faint wisp of smoke coming out the open front door and the lady of the house is in the front yard telling you it's in the kitchen, the booster is probably going to be your weapon of choice. A lot depends on situations and circumstances you encounter on arrival and what your experience, (and training), tells you to do. Either way, you can't put it out from the front yard with a 2 1/2" but you can squirt water and wait for the fire to come to you.
Different departments and areas require/demand/expect different actions. You said you were a volunteer with a rural department in GA. I started out as a volly with a rural dept. in SC, so we have similar circumstances we were/are working with. Knowledge comes from experience. Unfortunately, life has to be lived forwards, but can only be understood backwards. My suggestion would be "if" you have the opportunity and get an abandoned house donated to burn for training, try something and see how it works.
Set one room burning and let it going pretty good and hit it with a booster, playing the stream upwards into the ceiling and then swing it around in a circular motion throughout the doorway or window, whichever your attack initiates from. Observe the results. Then, do the same in a fresh room and use the 1 1/2 or 1 3/4, whichever you folks use. Again, observe the results. <(insert disclaimer here)> Obviously, common sense should tell you since this is a training exercise, anything that can go wrong, likely will, so have a backup line ready in case it's needed. Training is valuable because you're supposed to learn something from it. If you don't, there's a problem and it ain't the fire.
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Permalink Reply by Jack/dt on
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Our initial attack lines are 2 inch (1 3/4 is our trash line). Personally I can't imagine going in with a booster line. Even IF there are only wisps of light smoke, I'd rather have the gpm's and not need it than to need it and not have it. And we've knocked down a LOT of cooking fires in seconds.
Look at the gear the average LEO carries: Vest, cuffs, pepper spray, baton, taser, side arm (typically 9mm). How much of that is need for the average call? Yet it's with them every day. If a cop can be prepared for anything, why shouldn't we?
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Permalink Reply by Gregory Borg on
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Trevor,
Read the report on the Super Sofa fire in Charlston, booster lines on a building fire. I have a booster line on my engine, we use it for garbage, grass, trash cans and sometimes in overhaul. That is it, on car fires, or any building fire we use a 1 3/4 inch preconnect. Not enought water from the booster line to protect yourself or knock down much fire.
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Permalink Reply by Trevor Hawkins on
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Thank you Mr. Borg,
I was waiting for someone to bring up the charleston 9. We can learn from what happened to them, it goes back to knowing what fuels are in the structure and choosing your attack lines to fit them. Thank you for posting, have a safe and productive day.
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Thank you for the advice, and if we can get a hold of an abandoned structure i will be sure to suggest that.
Have a safe and productive day,
Trevor Hawkins
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Permalink Reply by Ben Waller on
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One of the things about that fire that is often overlooked is that it was originally an outside trash fire.
That helps remind us that it's a good idea to use a larger/higher GPM line on outside trash fires, particularly when there are structural exposures.
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Obviously, someone made a very bad decision there and it contributed to the loss of 9 lives. Not a fair comparison in my opinion. None of my earlier comments should be construed to confer that I'd pull a booster on a commercial or a fully involved structure. Lemmie tell ya' a little story.
When I was a young Lt. we got an alarm for a lightening strike w/smoke showing on a commercial structure in an industrial park. First due engine had 2 men on board, (engineer and firefighter), and they reported "lots of smoke showing" on arrival. This was on a Sunday afternoon and everything was locked up tight. I told them to pull lines that we were about 2 minutes out. On my arrival, I instructed a supply line be laid, entry made, and called for additional backup as there were only myself and two others on my engine. Long story short, once we got inside through a rear entrance, after climbing over a chain-link fence, we found a small fire in some boxes. It was a lightening strike and it had basically consumed all the available fuel pretty fast, hence the heavy smoke and extremely little fire. I thought we did an excellent job and the building owner said as much when he got on scene.
Once we got back to quarters, my Chief proceeded to chew my ass up one side and down the other for following the pre plan and dropping a supply with "only a little smoke" showing. (Note; Chief arrived as we were cleaning up and packing up.) I tried to explain to him what I was presented with on arrival but it didn't matter, "I" screwed up by putting all that hose on the ground and stretching two 1 1/2's. He's the Chief, his way. Damned if you do, damned if you don't. Needless to say, I didn't stick around long after that and neither did several others, officers and lower ranks. We won't delve any further into that but he was an idiot and a few other words I can't use here.
The arriving OIC or whatever rank that's first on scene has to make a call based on knowledge and experiences. I can't second guess the Charleston FD any more than I can the Chicago FD on their recent LODD's. I wasn't there and I don't think anybody else in this discussion was either. We all make judgment calls every time we put our feet on the floor and we have to live with them. Nuff said. I guess us "old timers" were just a little moreaggressive
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Permalink Reply by Ben Duske on
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Are you using this as a quick attack line? I know there are some department in MN that are starting to use a preconnect 2-1/2 as a quick attack blitz line. The way they do it is the first arriving truck pulls the "blitz" line and knocks down as much fire as they can with the line and the water they have in the on board tank.
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Permalink Reply by Ron Ayotte on
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Using a booster line as a primary fire attack line is like using a BB gun shoot down a fighter jet.
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Good story David, I wan not trying to second gusee anyone, just the fact that a booster line in a building that size is a little weak. We do not take booster lines into buildings as a general rule. Things have cganged a lot in the 36 years I have been at it, be safe.
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