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Is Race Still a Factor in the Fire Service?
I just read on Stater911 about a FF in Austin TX who was fired for posting naked pics of himself online. He did this on his own time and was fire because it showed poorly against the Austin FD. I don't know if "size" was a factor. But in DC a FF was cooking naked in a firehouse, intoxicated off duty. Nothing has happened and his name has not be given out. Now the reason I bring this up is because 30 African-American FF filed a grievince agianst the DCFD for whites being less punished then blacks for the same instances.
In my time I've people come up and talk to me about issues in thier firehouse from being called nigger or hearing nigger/black jokes to be denied driving privliedges. Just recently I heard of a company that had one African-American and while at the company banquet members thought it would be funny to serve him and HIS WIFE, chicken and watermelon. They came to me because I attended the state and county meetings and spoke my mind. While a member of the Recruitment and Retention committee I tried to have them place our booth at the Hispanic and African-American Festivals besides the state fair. No luck. I asked if companies wanted me to contact loal black churches with them to try to get members no luck.
I don't paint everyone with the same brush. I've had some very good experiences in the fire serivce. I'm, always welcomes where ever I go whenever I say I'm a FF from Delaware. I've had more bad experiences with the public then the fire service but I know there are problems out there.
I ask, "does your company or department reflect your community. Comning from a predominately Black department I'm proud of the fact that we have more white members then whites in the community.
My question is - As you look at your department, does it reflect the community? If not have you approached people of color to get them to join, if so how, if not why. Do you think the members of color are treated fairly in your company or department?
And lastly, do you think there is still a racial issue in the fire service today?
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by perry firefighter cert on
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I was reading you post on race And I can say from my point of view I've been a firefighter In Oregon for 7 years the factor regarding race has always been there It's just not talked about due to the sensative topic it has become over the years. I was shocked to hear the things you wrote and the statements some guys were saying and joking but I also can say most people that become friends or are In the same circle tend to take the word nigger Lighty what I'm trying to say is you can have 5 white guys be friends with two black guys and If they know each other they all make jokes about color no harm now take the two black guys who say It all the time no harm now take One white person saying it and now Its a problem this is such a hard issue because we all In a since have not made the issue of unfair treatment be directed at one main source when we all make up the rules and change them when it come to fair treatment its hard to say what is I guess I cant say much because I'm not the person being called nigger which is a hard word to call anyone If this is truly going on In the fire station It I would be afraid of an emergency call from gthat location the public deserves better from public servants
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Permalink Reply by lutan1 on
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If I understand what you're trying to say, it's about context and how it's used and who with. (ie: amongst friends). Is that right?
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Permalink Reply by Aric Stewart on
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is race an issue I personally do not think that it is. I don't care if you are red black yellow green purple orange whatever it don't matter to me as long as you can do the job and do it effectively and not get me or my crew hurt or killed while doing the job. Now I have seen where a person was hired over someone that was more qualified and scored higher on their testing and all of that because of the minority factor. Is that right, I do not think that it is i think that the person who is best for the job should get the job. Like I said I don't care about skin color or sexual orientation or religion. So is race a factor in the fire service maybe but who can honestly say that it is there or not, Blacks pick on whites and when the whites pick back all of the sudden it is a race thing really i thought this was a brotherhood/sisterhood
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Permalink Reply by capcityff on
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Yes, race is still a huge factor. Anyone who's worked in a large city knows that. Not just with the other firemen, but with the residents of the city. I've had people of another race tell me they don't want my help because I'm white. It's just how it is and I've come to accept it. Am I racist? Of course not. However, it doesn't mean that I don't have to deal with it around me.
Oh and about the main post, those DC firemen WERE punished.
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Permalink Reply by Brian Dumser on
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Call me racist, but I refuse to work with Green or Purple people! LOL
Seriously though, no racial problems here. Now 20 miles east in Chicago...
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Permalink Reply by Oldman on
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Race will ALWAYS be an issue, not only in the fire service, but in this country as a whole. As long as statics are kept on the proportion of nationalities or race, as long as almost any application or government form one fills out asks about ethnic origin, there will continue to be racism.
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I don't pretend to think that if these questions weren't asked, that the racial bias would end. But I have thought for a long time that it does help perpetuate the cycle.
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Again, it's good points. It got me thinking about some of our official Governmemt paperwork and many are loaded with ethnic origin, religion, etc, then it subtlety promotes a division....
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Permalink Reply by Mike Schlags (Captain Busy) Retd on
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Kind of being on the sidelines here since my heart attack, and finally being able to get upstairs to my computer... verses an iPhone, I wanted to chime in here to give you another perspective from someone who has experienced a different kind of discrimination, and a different viewpoint compared to what I've been reading on your forum post Craig. It's not hard to figure out that the kind of discrimination you have to deal with being an East coast firefighter is much different than what right coast firefighters have on their plates to deal with.
Where I work and live, having an ethnicity composed of being 1/2 Irish and 1/2 Ukraine means that I, like many others am a mutt with white skin... kind of. When I spend a lot of time in the sun, I get really dark. So dark that when I first started dating my wife, her father forbid her from dating a "mexican"... Really?
I also blend in really well in Hawaii considering I'm a beach guy with the appropriate tan lines on my feet from flops and raccoon eyes from my Ray Bans. With that said, I wanted to comment on what I think might be called reverse discrimination. White folks in my county and state are now the minority. Both asian and hispanic populations continue to skyrocket compared to the caucasian folks. That's just how it is and it has developed into some pretty bizarre situations where folks are more pro-Mexico that USA. Just go to a soccer game and see USA flags turned upside down and thousands waving Mexican flags. I find this offensive.
Couple this with new laws that were designed to provide college education for illegal aliens, folks that have not lived here there entire life like I have. I have paid full tuition for my kids without any special perks... But yet others, having not contributed a dime in to the system will be afforded full ride scholarships... This is NOT fair. I'm not the recipient of any grants, special privileges or bro deals because I'm white.
As usual with politics, the majority wins most of the time and gets what they want, and the majority of our population is hispanic. It's just our culture and trust me, I can cook mexican food just as well as a restaurant can. This is how I grew up, blending into a society because I look hispanic.
So what happens when the minority of folks are white? Probably the same kinds of things that you have face, which means that your experiences as an african american firefighter will be repeated with only the skin color changing...
It sucks having firefighters talking in Spanish, making jokes, and not including you in the fun and games. But yet this is not discrimination? It's getting worse and it's not a level playing field out here anymore.
But things are changing for your ethnicity Craig, our president is black and so was the Rose Queen this year, which was justified because she was really quite pretty. The west coast culture as far as I know does not having any real race issues as far as black vs. white unless you work in Oakland or Compton. You also might note that you NEVER see or hear about Jewish firefighters... That's just something that you don't see much anywhere...
CBz
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Permalink Reply by Nathan Henderson on
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Sadly, I have to say yes, racism is probably still around in the fire service.
I have only seen it on one occasion that I can recall. There were a few of us at the station one day and someone brought up about a guy who was thinking about volunteering with our department but was concerned about his race being an issue. (He was african and the community I live in is about 95% caucasian with a few hispanic, asian, and african families in the area) While the majority of us were fine with him joining the department, there was one member who actually said "The day we have a ni#### or a sp### join this department I'll walk out the door" We all looked at him in shock and pretty much said then you can leave and no one will stop you. He ended up moving due to work and I think the guy who was worried about the racial issue moved out of the area for work reasons too.
I can say that with the membership we have now, I wouldn't see any problems with someone who isn't white coming in and having a problem with any racial issues. As long as the person can do the job and puts forth the effort to make themselves a better firefighter, it really shouldn't matter what their ethnicity, gender etc is. But, sadly, America isn't quite there as a whole yet and untill they are, racism will always be around, even in small amounts.
Mike, you make a good point too. "Reverse discrimination" as you called it, is around and I believe it has grown more over the years. I think alot of it is people not wanting to be labeled as racist so they go overboard providing some of the things you brought up. I saw it when I was looking for scholarships to apply for to go to college. The ones I could apply for as a white male with pretty good but not 4.0 grades were almost nothing for the ones aimed solely for "minorities" and women. Now this didn't really anger me or anything, it's just something I noticed.
There are good and bad people of every ethnicity. Some who do deserve the slurs and many who don't. Being from a predominantly caucasian area, I have seen plenty of people who deserve any slur aimed at white people. And almost no one of the other ethnicities in the area deserving any slurs or negativity. In fact, nearly all of them are recognized as hard working and respected citizens in the area.
I am 100% behind equal opportunities for everyone. The best applicant for the job should recieve it no matter the industry of work. But this country as a whole is not there yet and that's not just caucasians accepting others, but all ethnicities accepting everyone.
Hopefully we get there sooner than later.
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One would think that everyone takes the same training and promotional tests but... all the fun and games associated with the decisions that ultimately decide who promotes is based more on who you know and what perks you can garner depending on your ethnicity and the ever popular court rulings that are cloaked in the world of affirmative action and discrimination...
What's going to be interesting is hearing more and more about reverse discrimination because you are not an ethnic minority. When folks who are not of color are the majority, what happens then?
So now, with my curiosity peaked, it got me questioning whether or not there still was egregious racial discrimination that still existed now that it is 2012. What a can of worms. The most prevalent fire department that still has problems is the Philadelphia Fire Department. Without belaboring the problems, one of the key things I noted was the initial testing process that makes the decisions as to who gets hired and who does not.
Being very naive about all of this, I have to ask is this really the case? Does this still happen in the USA? Here's where I found my data and I welcome having this explained to me because I find it confusing and contradictory. http://www.adversity.net/philly/default.htm
The City of Philadelphia has decided that since blacks were failing the entrance exam at such a high rate, "business necessity" (necessary job skills) no longer required certain test questions, as follows:
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Next- Reading comprehension skill questions have been eliminated from the entrance exam. The ability of firefighters to read and comprehend Material Safety Data Sheets, hazmat placards, and Emergency Response Guides has become less important to the Philadelphia FD than hiring the correct number of black firefighters. Note also: All Phila. FD hires are supposedly certified as Emergency Medical Technicians (EMT's). What about the ability of these EMT's to read, comprehend, understand and apply emergency medical protocols?
- The fire department has also eliminated math skills questions from its entrance exam. Before the court-ordered racial quotas, a Phila. firefighter needed basic math skills in order to determine if a pumper, hydrant or standpipe would be able to deliver enough water to a fire by computing friction, pumping force and height. After the court-ordered racial quotas this ability has apparently taken a back seat to hiring the right number of black firefighters.
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