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Concealed Carry and fires
Maybe an odd question, but the other day I was looking at sub-compact pistols and revolvers for concealed carry (yes, I have the necessary training and permit), and the thought crossed my mind... do you think there could be potential problems with concealed carry and working a fire? In theory, your PPE should protect your firearm from thermal exposure just like it does you, but we don't live in that neat little town called Theory.
And the more I think about it, I'm thinking this question more affects the volunteers than full time FF's; a full-time knows when he's on duty, and even if he carries while off-duty, once he gets to the station (or leaves home for the station), he can remove his holster. But for a volunteer, you never know when you're going to get paged. Do you leave the gun on you, slip it out of the holster and leave in your (locked) vehicle, drop it in the station when you grab your gear....
These are the kinds of things I think about on long drives... the "what-ifs" of life.
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Ben Waller on
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Blake, cops are absolutely not first responders "like us". They are charged with law enforcement, firefighters are not. Cops carry weapons in which they are both certified and expected to use in the course of their duties, firefighters are not. Cops put bad people in jail, even if it takes the threat of deadly force. Firefighters do not.
As for seeing the larger picture, I think you need to apply that to your arguments. The larger picture is that the risks of firefighters carrying firearms outweigh the benefits - if there even are any. The larger picture is that if a single firefighter ever shoots anyone in the course of their duties - no matter if it's justified or not - then it paints a target on firefighters as a group.
And I still can find no evidence that there has ever been a single U.S. firefighter LODD where armed firefighters would have made a difference.
That lack is excellent evidence that the tradition that firefighters don't carry firearms is a good and proper one.
There is also a huge difference between appropriate out-of-the-box thinking and inappropriate out-of-the-box thinking. You are apparently generalizing the two things as if they are the same. They are not. Firefighters carrying firearms is not needed, therefore out-of-box thinking should be saved for topics in which we really can make a difference. Potentially shooting someone in the course of firefighter duties isn't the kind of difference we need.
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Cops deal with armed persons that are fire suspects all of the time.
C-O-P-S, not firefighters. The cops were doing their job, not ours. We need to do ours, not theirs.
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Permalink Reply by Peter Reilly on
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Hey all,
This a good debate, I am a full time firefighter paramedic in South Florida. Our department has sop that you are not allowed to have a gun on duty. My station is in a bad part of town for better words it is the hood.were shooting, stabbing and od are a normal day for us. I have been shot before and was stab on a rescue call were a woman that was all drug out and combative . She stab me in the left side of the chest with a small metal nail file and blew out my left lung. As some of the post stated that things can happen real fast and change the call . If there was a gun that was pulled out by one of my brother fire fighter they would have used it. But here is a thought what if we were allowed to carry taisers I am sure that if we had one this might have happen . When the police department received taisers I had put in a request for them as well . The police department was all for it ,but the fire department was not . The Chief of the department stated that we would use them on one another which is probably true. Down in Florida the state pass a law called Stand your ground. Which means just that you have a right to shoot if you feel that your life is is in danger. Their are a lot firefighters that do have a concealed permit to carry a gun , but not on duty . In South Florida There are a lot of people that have guns and the bad guys have them as well . Most of the patience that we take to the hosp. on rescue have to be search for weapon before we take them in by us. If this their rights are being violated for us doing this than so be it .
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Permalink Reply by Blake Mayo on
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We have been targets for a long time now. That is why we have been shot at and stabbed and assaulted. Please read the brothers comments from flordia that has been attacked. As of now I have nothing more to say.
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I'm still waiting on you to show a single pertinent example of how an armed firefighter prevented a LODD or made a dangerous scene safer.
I'm also still waiting on an explanation of how an armed firefighter can stop a bombing.
You keep telling us that armed firefighters will make things safer, but you have yet to describe specifically how that works other than for protection from animals during wildland fires. You say that we are targets. Do you mean that bears and beavers are targeting firefighters during wildland fires?
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...and the deputy sheriffs are not firefighters, so hazmat cops are not the same thing as armed firefighters.
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Permalink Reply by 55 TRUCK on
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We can have our Bullet pushers in our vehicles. Being a vetran with 20yrs in the Army as a Infantryman & Combat medic. With time in Iraq. I can say that if your carrying with bunker gear on, your not gonna get to it befor Mr. nutty puts a round in you. As firefighters in gear we need to be able to react quikly to threats with what ever is handy..Axe,radio,O2 bottle etc.
That being said, if you want to carry..I don't care one way or the other. Hell mount a M2 .50 BMG on your engine.
I do know there are firemen who work in rather small areas blah,blah. Who will say we wait for police or if it feels unsafe we wait and stage....You don't work in the city you have no clue how it is. In the hood/Ghetto... Things go from just fine to Shitty in the blink of an eye.
Here is a news flash, where I work and where alot of other city firemen work across this country, the people don't care if the cops are there or not.
I have seen the street start to fill with people after we got on scene with Police cause they called us to check out a suspect they had tased. The car had 3 men in it with drugs and guns. There friends didn't like the fact that they were being arrested. Game on.
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Permalink Reply by Marc Hansen on
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Without getting into all of the rights questions and comments...how are you going to draw a weapon from under your gear in time to stop an incident from escalating? Assuming you are geared up for a fire incident... By the time you undo straps of the scba, open bunker coat and get gun removed your talking what 30 seconds or more. Now that whole time you are opening yourself to the environment your gear is designed to protect you from. So you are just basically advocating which way you wish to get injured.
I've been around weapons my whole life, own more than a few and have a ccw permit but wouldn't want to carry one on either the fire ground or in the ambulance. There is a gun drawer in both my vehicles in order to safely store a weapon while I'm doing firefighter stuff, and generally leave them at home while I'm working on the ambulance. While I am very strongly pro gun, I am even more strongly pro common sense and to me it just doesn't make sense to carry while I'm in bunker gear or working the ambulance. Just my 2 cents worth
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Thank you for your military service.
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I agree Marc,
I have been on the receiving end , but I still think that you can not have a gun on duty. I for one are all for having a gun and I do have a ccw but not on duty. I have been on calls that have been great when you get there and a second later it is your nightmare . When this happen to me a gun would not have stopped it from happen .
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Permalink Reply by capcityff on
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I agree completely. Things change so quickly in rough parts of town. About a week ago I was worked and we had 3 separate shootings within a mile of the fire house in less than an hour. One even knocked on the door about their friend lying dead in the alley up the street. One guess could say that in that short of time, it could have all been the same people shooting. So who's to say they won't come back and harm us on scene. That's what the police are for though. Nothing I can do.
It's never happened to me but I've heard one story from a guy here where they had a shooting victim in the back of their ambulance. A guy opened the back door and looked in. He asked if the victim was going to make it. When the fireman said yes, the guy shot the victim again to make sure he was dead.
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Permalink Reply by ashfire on
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I can remember back in the 70s after I joined my fire company that someone made a threat against the any police and fire station in the county that they would driveby shoot the place up.
I know that many career and volunteer personnel brought guns to the stations for a few nights.
It was awhile after that by laws were written to keep firearms out of the staion.
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