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Entering a Window for VES - Do You Bring the Can? Brotherhood Instructors
We're adding on to Brotherhood Instructors' latest post with an interesting question from their Facebook page:
"What do you think about taking a can in with you?"
Tools - 6’hook or pike pole & Halligan
Before making the move you want to sweep under the window with your hook checking for victims and a solid floor. Hang the hook end on the windowsill with the other end inside the window. This is your reference point guiding you back to your exit.
When entering you want to step into the window whenever possible. One leg at a time straddling the window sill keeping your torso outside until your sure you can commit. This way if conditions change for the worse you can step out. If you feel the need to go in the window head first due to a high heat condition that makes it unbearable to step in the window with your full PPE on use extreme caution. If conditions didn’t improve after taking the window this is not the place you want to be due to the high likely hood that it’s only going to get worse.
Remember you need to get yourself to the interior door and close it so you can make that temporary barrier that will give you a little more time to search. Also, if the heat is such that you can’t step in the likelihood someone is alive in that room severely diminishes. Only experience and training will help you read the conditions properly so when the time comes you are successful. That cannot be done from a keyboard.
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Sparky3317 on
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I do not believe you should take the can in with you for VES. VES is ment as a rapid entry and search tactic to check a single room and if fire is found to direct the engine crew to where the fire is. Usually VES is done by one firefighter usually the outside vent man. Also with VES being a rapid search you do not want to be carry more equipment than is necessary. If you are in a room that has not yet been involved by fire you also want to try to confine the room from the fire by closing any open doors you come across, along with notifying the IC so he can coordinate with the other crews working so that a duplication of work can be avoided to save time and crews can concentrate on extinguishing the fire and searching the rest of the building.
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Permalink Reply by Andrew Richmond on
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I'm not big on the idea of a can during VES. It's supposed to be a rapid search and sweep and then bail out situation.
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Permalink Reply by Gregory Borg on
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Why not! We do it with a man outside the window and one to enter. Why not take it up, it may come in handy. The outside guy could hold it. I think we will try that in our next VES drill. If it is too akward then we will know.
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Permalink Reply by John Crabbe on
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I disagree with taking a can in with you. VES should be a rapid search, get in, close the door to the hallway if open, do a quick sweep and get out. Having a can also gives you a chance to start a fire attack, which is really not the purpose of VES. Really if conditions are so bad that you may think some FF is necessary, perhaps you shouldn't be looking to VES.
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You make a good point John, you are not there to fight fire.
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Permalink Reply by capcityff on
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No way. Wouldn't even consider it. You're not on the engine company. You're on the truck. Your job isn't extinguishment. In my department if you're doing VES you're most likely the hook man and throwing a ladder by yourself. You'll usually just bring your hook in, do your search, and leave.
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Eight years on the truck, good. Followed by 10 yeas on an engine, bad. My thinking has been turned to mush by all the water. Capcity and John are correct.
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Permalink Reply by Ben Waller on
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VES should be conducted with tools, a light, and if you have one available, a TIC.
Clean the window, see what the smoke does, get in, SHUT THE INTERIOR DOOR, complete the search, and get out.
The can will slow you down and it is very unlikely to provide enough knockdown power to really protect you, especially if the interior door fails.
Keep you hands free when doing VES. If you find a victim, you'll need your hands to get the victim to the window. If you took the can, you'll have to leave it behind. How big of a replacement water can budget does your department have?
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Permalink Reply by Paul Hasenmeier on
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No on the can. VES has to be quick. Get in, search, shut the door and get out. All the can will do is slow u down.
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Permalink Reply by backsteprescue on
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When doing VES, I'll take a hook and TIC with me. If I've got a partner at the foot of the ladder, him having a can probably isn't a bad idea.
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Permalink Reply by Bob Callahan on
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VES is something that is a very unfamiliar concept in this area. In fact, it's not even taught as a tactic by the state fire training agency. I introduced my department to it a few years ago, and while it's a tool in our toolbox, the preferred and overwhelmingly used search method is through the door.
In my opinion, you should not have the can. However, if we are going to use VES, my department requires a hoseline at the window.
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Permalink Reply by Shareef Abdu Nur on
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No, I would not have the can go in for VES. On our Truck, everyone is aware of the fact that we are not there for extinguishment. That is the Eng Co's job. The Truck's job is complex enough as it is. The last thing we need to do is complicate it any more.
With us, VES is performed by one member and he/she has enough to carry without adding a can. If he/she encounters any fire upon VES, he/she will isolate the fire if possible, radio to Command the location and conditions found, continue the search, exit, then radio to Command that VES is complete.
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