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Lack of Respect Because of Your Gender?
check out my Females in the Fire service Group. I am not man bashing at all. I am just stating that i believe women that can do the job deserve equality!!! I do understand that there are women out there that cant...'cuz I have them on my department TOO, however those are the ones that give chics like me who love to get dirty and get hot ( in a fire the that is) a bad name. Tell me your thoughts.
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Captain Steven Long on
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Though I cannot speak for everyone, I treat the female professionals on our department no different that anyone of the guys. This means equallity. I personnally have no issues with females being in firefighting and/or EMS profession as long as they do the job that they are asked to do without altering the task to make it easier or hear any crying about it, i.e. too heavy, to difficulty. However there are unfortune circumstances that some female firefighter join a department looking to meet guys or hang out. Wrong reasons like these will not win awards in my house.
Do I think that fire departments have a long way to go to accept females in the profession, Yes. Especially the volunteer sector. Paid jobs still struggle with diversity issues, but far less likely to end up with a lawsuit from harassment.
Hell, there are females on our department that I would put on the line before any one of the male firefighters. I fact I worked a job with one of them yesterday morning doing hook work. Not one complaint out of her!
Rachel, If you have females on your department that fail to meet the standards set forth by your department and are giving the hard working (those willing to get dirty and work hard) female professionals a bad name, talk to them. Tell them what the scoop is, tell them to get with it or get out.
(Stepping off the soap box)
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Permalink Reply by Rachel Fulling on
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LT,
I have tried..but when the Chief doesnt back it.. instead encourages it .. htis becomes reall frustrating!!! I am glad officers feel the way they do.... thanks for the encouragement!!!
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Permalink Reply by IDoItAll on
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Let me tell you this, I have been a firefighter for 14 years and counting. I was the first woman in my county. I am "one of the guys" and worked hard to get there. I did twice the work and got half the credit for a long time. Me and most of the guys look at each other as equals. There have been a few women who joined and they thought the station was their personal "dating" service. I made it very plain to them that I had worked too hard to get women respected and they were not going to mess that up. Trust me, they are gone and I am still there. That type comes and goes, all I can do is keep being persistant and consistant in what and how I do my job and let my work speak for itself. I get angry at the ones that come in and are afraid to get their hands dirty but I have watched the guys shut them out too. I am proud of being a firefighter, not a female in the fire service but a FIREFIGHTER, 'nough said.
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Permalink Reply by Sandy113 on
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i second that! i dont like when people call me a female firefighter or a fire woman.....I'M A FIRE FIGHTER!!!!!!!!!! go you!
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Permalink Reply by Marie Armstrong on
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That is oh so true...Us females do have to attend the same training and pass the same physical exams and drills. At least in my county and department you do.
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Permalink Reply by Dan Hoey on
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I have a hood thats the colors of the Irish flag I have one thats homer simpsons head was a gag gift at the last reward ceremony and one that on my wall that has the FDNY logo and 343 names on it that was a fund raiser. but I have to say our Jrs helmets are kind of pink and I feel for them
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Permalink Reply by Spanner 122 on
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I am not going to read all of these replies because I'm sure they range very strongly from one end of the spectrum to the other and frankly, I have to get to the gym. I am going to say, and I truly mean no disrespect to you Rachel, but it's this kind of outburst that hurts us the most. If you can do the job and have no issues, then put your head down and do the job. It actually really bothers me when women start to pound their chest (Or maybe the desk... whatever) and complain about equality or respect, because to me, that's what makes us stand out the most and that's what gives us the bad name.
I goof around in the station, I do my work on the ground, and I never, ever bring up gender issues unless I'm making a joke about it. Making issues about it over and over again leaves it out in the open and allows others to jump on it (as I"m sure has happened here yet again).
I also have to say that we are not equal. We have differences; in general men are stronger we do have to work harder to stay strong. In general men will be able to work longer into life than we will, so again we will have to work harder to stay strong as long as possible.
There are many other differences that you will notice along the way, there is no denying that. BUT, I always say, demading respect is the first sign that you do not deserve it. Earn it by shutting up and putting up (not you specifically, just in general).
Women generally have to work twice as hard to be considered half as good. This will only become an issue if we are carrying a chip on our shoulders instead of your load.
PS - Yes, standards are exactly the same here for everyone.
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Permalink Reply by Jason Myer on
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Hey there my sister of fire...... As Ive posted on some other comment pages and on some other web sites, I have been doing almost every aspect of Fire other then Comand and control since 99 and have found that it doesnt mater, creed, color, sex, religion, political affiliation, sexual orientation, color of car you own, cat or dog owner, etc......if you got it, you got it, and if you dont, thn you dont. Period, all stop, halt, final answer. Education sometimes doesnt do it. I work with one of the most booksmart people I have ever met, but I am so glad im not on his engine, cause he jsut doesnt have the rest of the needed package...but hes a line officer, and Im just an operator, so when I tried to bring it up..... Anyhow I digress..... I know lots of female hotshots, helitack personnel, engine firefighters, and a lot of female structural firefighters, both volly and paid, some that ave left the fire service because they felt that they didnt have it mentally anymore.... they had lost the needed edge one way or another....even if they still had the best test scores and were one of the most physically fit members of thier dept. Any how stick with it, help try to weed the bad from the good, and dont let any other male or female firefighter attempt to push out a rookie that has the ability and desire and jsut needs the guidance. Hell we were all there at one point of time!! Oh and jsut be my normal smart alec self....(hehe) You said at the end of one of your replys Rach. (hope its ok to call you that !), that "SO NO THIS ISN'T A FEMINIST THING....ITS AN EQUALITY THING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" and I have to disagree with you for one reason....ITS A FAMILY THING... We back each other up, day in, day out....It doesnt matter what sex you are under the turnouts, nomex, smurf suit, or at the end of a rope on the side of a cliff....You back me, Iback you...I fight fire with mutual and auto aid departmets alot, and even though I dont know them, volly or paid, the big or little (fill inthe blank with a color ) engines come screaming up, and even though I might know that they probably have less training the I do, I trust them. Anyhow again I have digressed You need a backer be there any time for ya GIRL!! NUFF SAID!!! Jas
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Permalink Reply by Tom Kenney on
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First of all let me state the fact that I have the utmost respect (and love) for females!! I have 3 grown daughters whom I've told "don't be afraid to attempt whatever you want, because you can do anything you set your heart upon". I may even vote for a female President next year - wayyyy too early to tell.
Also, I've been a firefighter in a busy metropolitan department for 27 years. The last 14 years have been served as a Company Officer. I have an opinion on this issue which may not be too popular with all the women on this forum, but it is my opinion based on personal observations and common sense.
Let me also prefface my statement with the fact that there are many older male firefighters I believe are not capable of doing an adequate job of carrying their weight at a fire and should be retire for the sake of their personal safety and the safety of their fellow firefighters. This is a case by case situation depending on the individual's health, level of physical conditioning, and their position (firefighter, officer, chief, etc). The number of runs or fires of the company or department is NOT a factor, because even the slowest company in the country can be the first-in company to the next major fire or emergency to hit the USA.
As for women in the fire service, some can adequately do the job - some cannot. The key here is ADEQUATELY. In this discussion I define "adequately" as being able to do their job without putting themselves, their fellow firefighters, or the general public in jeopardy.
The problem with all this is the "politically correct" crowd. These idiots are not firefighters whose lives are on the line, they are people with no understanding of what firefighting is about who want everything to be equal for men/women, black/white/hispanic/etc, .... In theory that's wonderful. In theory, I agree with them. BUT...when my life is on the line, I want "the most qualified" person standing (or crawling) next to me. That's the most qualified in terms of strength, intelligence, loyalty, heart, etc. ALL OF THESE QUALITIES - NOT JUST ONE OR TWO. These qualities (and more) are what make our firefighters great!! Not their sex. Not their skin color or ethnicity, not whether or not they have a relative on the department or know someone in City Hall!!!!
There are many women who, I believe, can do the job of firefighting ADEQUATELY (adequately is a good thing). Unfortunately for women in general, firefighting requires a great deal of upper body strength. Males did not make up this fact to block out females from this profession - this is just a fact. This fact, when incorporated in the physical agilty portions of many entry exams for fire departments, caused most women (not all) to fail to pass the requirements. The answer according to the "Politically correct" was to eliminate the upper body strength testing from the exams because it was "unfairly" keeping women out of the fire service. One of the biggest problems with this decission (which almost all fire departments across the country now embrace in fear of legal action) is that these "politically correct" individuals failed to inform the fire, and the heavy hoselines, and the heavy ladders, and the heavy equipment, etc. of this decission. As far as I can tell, the job I'm doing today takes the exact same amount of upper body strength as the job I started 27 years ago. Fire, debris, injury and death do not give women a free pass.
The answer is simple, and here's where the common sense comes into play, revert the job requirements and the application testing go back to the basics that are needed by any firefighter wanting to do their new job ADEQUATELY. Fair and pertinent testing and let the chips fall where they may. It makes absolutely no sense that at a time when there is more competition than ever for firefighting jobs, we are lowering our standards so that everyone has a chance to join regardless of their abilities.
Women CAN do this job. If we only let those women who can prove they can develop the strength to do it come aboard there will be much less 'bitching' from the men about women not being able to cut it in the fire service!
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Permalink Reply by Rachel T. Corey on
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I may not be as strong, I may not be as big. But I figured out how to do the job with my head. My brain that is. If I can't lift it, drag it, pull it, shoot it or climb it..........I figure out how to it. I use leverage, and I use other muscles on my body that are the strongest. But let there be no mistaking about it, if for one second I felt I couldn't do the job, I'd be out of there.People should be judged by what they can do. What I mean is.....if you can do the job, go for it. But if you cant, male or female, get out before you get somebody killed. Male, female, it doesn't matter to me. I also feel there should be no allowances made in the physical testing.Ether you can do the job or you can't. Fires don't care if your male or female, it will treat you equally. And I know exactly what some of you are saying about the females that are just looking for guys. They usually don't last. And lastly, outside of work I do like to wear make-up, dress feminine and have my nails done. But I promise I don't whine when that nail gets broken. As much as I love being female, I also love being a firefighter.
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explain to me why a color makes me less of a firefighter, please do. and i'm glad you are going to tell me about myself since apparently have no idea
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