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Plane Crashes!?
I asked Paul cause he's a stats Nut but he told me to start a thread about it so here it goes..........
#1 --- What is the Stat on planes crashes where the responding department is trained on it VS. not trained for it.
#2 --- our department has a small airport near it and the approach for it extents into our coverage area and I haven't a clue whether or not there are any special precautions or not when approaching a plane crash scene other than it will never be where you can just pull a line off thetruck and reach it it will be in the middle of a bush or in a field LOL.Does anyone have any sites I could go to because I would like to learn a bit about this so I can give a little briefing to my chief to see if we could do a full training on it I believe if there are special hazzards to plane crashes it would be worth the time.We do have some training possibly coming up with the Canadian Military which all started because we go a page for one of it's helicopters going down one day but we were cancelled because he popped back up on the radar they thot he had crashed but he just went low under the radar.
If anyone has any comments or training sites I could look up please by all means leave them in here.And Paul now that I have started the thread I expect you to do your homework for us!!!
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Richard Armstrong on
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Ya Ralph there are basics to everything but what I'm wondering is there some extra-ordinary stuff that needs to be done before you can get anywhere near to start the basic stuff.Not sure?I know I'm looking forward to this Military training coming up they are picking a few gus to go so I kinda want to learn some stuff so I get a leg up on the other guys and show them that I'm definatly interested.
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Permalink Reply by Nate on
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We had one last year. Not really a crash, but an emergency landing on the highway. Just remember, all of the fuel is in the wings. These things are usually fiberglass, so watch out for splintering if extrication is needed. When it comes to cribbing the plane, know that it is high off of the ground, and the wheels are usually only held there by hydraulic pressure. Just some basics that we noticed and worked on. It is definitely one of those interesting pages to hear over the radio.
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Permalink Reply by Vic Silverfish on
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Here's a good place to start:
http://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/field_offices/fsdo/ric/local_mo...
The handful of small plane crashes I've attended are either really easy: everyone walks away, or everyone is dead - neither require a lot of FD assistance. Blanket it with foam and secure the scene.
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Permalink Reply by Wade Seely on
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Here is a link to a very good thread on this subject.
http://www.firefighternation.com/xn/detail/889755:Comment:4457171
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Permalink Reply by Norm Tindell on
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We have a good size private airstrip in our district. We had a pilot give us a training on what to do in case a private plane goes down. I'd contact the airport authority and ask for their help if I were you. There are lots of things to think about. Our most memorable run there at the field wasn't a "plane crash" after all. A piece of the space shuttle fell at the east end of the airfield when the ship broke up over Texas in 2003.
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Permalink Reply by Jay Nicholson on
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If you have an airport in or near your first due area it's not if but when you will have an aircraft emergency. Kudos for thinking ahead. With general aviation your biggest hazard is going to be the amount of fuel on-board. Commercial and military are going to be in a catagory all to themselves.
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Permalink Reply by Derek R. on
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http://cirrusaircraft.com/flash/firstresponder/vid.aspx
** username: "cirrus"(without quotes), password: CAPS **
Something to keep an eye open for. Same as we watch out for airbags in vehicles.
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Permalink Reply by Ron Ayotte on
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The Cirrus line of aircraft are not the only ones installing the Ballistic Recovery Systems (BRS). They can be retrofitted to just about any private aircraft. There are also airbags that are in the restraint systems that are being fitted to new aircraft and retrofitted to older aircraft.
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Permalink Reply by Ernie Scheinert on
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Thank you for noting this Derek. We were warned about this in our ARFF training last month which was presented by a training company based out of MN that actually brings the training to your location so that your equipment can be used...the main purpose of the training was for the annual recertification of the full-timers that run the ARFF truck, but us volunteers also got some hose time as well as a few runs through their fuselage doing victim recovery and stuff.
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Permalink Reply by Damo on
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We have a pretty busy small airport in our district and we actually had a class on plane crashes. There was a lot to take in and way too much to explain here, as we have planes as small as one prop trainers upto full on rich boys Lear Jets and even a water landing plane that has its on lake. Also we have ATF, FBI, homeland security, ICE, and once in a while a full loaded going into war Apache style helicopter drop by. But, the two main things that we were told, do not go on the run way unless told by the tower and do not use foam on the run way, as either we will be cleaning it up for days or a large bill will be sent to us for closing down the run way for a long time. I heard there were more call outs to the airport as people actually live and work there that have nothing to do with the planes and they cause more issues than plane crashes.
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Permalink Reply by FETC on
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First off there is two classifications of aircraft responses. Aircraft Accidents and Incidents the determinent being damage and/or personal injury / death(s). Not sure if you will find a statistics on the times for which a fire department was trained or not who responded to a crash. The FAA requires indexed airports with commercial carrier service to have a staffed ARFF presence on site; with the first truck arriving in 3 minutes or less from the time of notification, with application of water and foam. But as for the smaller general aviation or non-indexed airports, the requirement for response and training is the sole responsibility of the AHJ. Who most often is the local FD responding to said airport. This may include consideration on flight paths, but for the most part it is the local FD who is charged to respond to the airport to mitigate. I am a huge advocate for asking the airport for help. They have money alloted for training and may be willing to hire or send out someone to train the area communities that will be charged or affected by the airports operation.
I am an NFPA 1003 and FAA ARFF instructor, who has also taught many responders over my 17 years. There are many hazards in an aircraft that we do not see in the regular auto accident. The latest hazard to be identified is the ballistic parachute recovery system. I first offered training on the BPS - (ballistic parachute systems) or BRS - (ballistic recovery systems) to my memebers and many other fire departments in the region back in 2006.
This system is dangerous to ALL first responders. They are not only found on brand new modern aircraft, (yes like the Sirrus SR series) but they have obtained a certificate to retro-fit them into many older general aviation aircraft like Cessna and Piper Aircraft. They initially were designed for ultralight aircraft. And the company is now atempting to develop a larger system to recover larger military aircraft.
There latest design is to retro install new seat belts for which an airbag is installed into the webbing system to protect the pilot/copilot from hitting the yoke. These (bags and chute) hazards are dangerous to us because they are not as easy to identify as in our automobiles. The auto industry has labeled the molding and plastic covers for emergency responsers. You could be on a medical emergency and have a live charge non-pinned.
To my knowledge luckily I have not heard about first responder (fire department) deaths from accidental discharge of these ballistic parachutes. When the company first started offering first responder training videos, they also offered a specialty wire cutter (option) for rescuers to disable the activation cable during a low impact crash that had not set off the system. I bought the cutters for our responders. But since then, they have re-developed their training program and subsequent video to basically state DO NOT TOUCH the system at all. They now offer a 24-7 readiness "Go Team" from the factory that will fly out to your accident site and dis-assemble the system for the first responders.
For anyone looking for training on this, you can get it free, online from their website located at:
http://www.brsparachutes.com/first_responders.aspx
If your department desires a hard copy, you need only make a toll free phone call to request a free copy of the DVD. This company is great to work with.
Take care and stay safe.
Bill (FETC)
www.fetcservices.com
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Permalink Reply by John Dobson on
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We have had a few plane crashes and a small helicopter. I can tell you if it is a millitary aircraft stay away and let it burn is what thet told us. There could be unexploded ordnance even there flares are a big hazzard. Cropdusters can be a big mess also, A major Haz-Mat scene. The small heilcopter had fuel spilling all over the pilot kind of scary to extricate even with foam all over.
We had a windshield pop out of an medical helicopter in the middle of a four lane highway once even. Well it took a good while to load it up on a flatbed truck and open the highway I can say.
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