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If this post is already in firefighter nation please share the title so I can take a look. I was not able to find anything while searching past forums.
This has kind of bugging me for awhile. Now I dont know if this is just a east coast thing from New Hamshire to Virginia or if it happens all over the country (never traveled much). But I drive through these downs everynow and then and all of a sudden I have a fire truck or an ambulance coming up behind me quick, lights shining but no siren. Companies coming up to intersections maybe 15 feet before them then they turn on a siren. Shouldnt it be if your lights are on and your going to a call you should have the siren going whether its 1 oclock in the afternoon or 3 in the morning. I mean because if firefighters get in an accident or someone doesnt pull over for them in the day time they complain that the person couldnt see or hear the fire truck coming. But at night what happens? These fire trucks going all out to calls late at night with just lights going through intersections and past cross streets without any sound at all.
Just want to find out what other peoples thoughts on this are.
Should we listen to towns people when they complain that our lights and sirens woke them up at 3 am and the chief decides that we cant run with our lights going or does your department just say screw it and turn it all on for your safety and everyone elses on the road?
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Michael Meadows on
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You mean the air horn don't have an endless supply of air?!?!?!?!?!? WHY DON'T PEOPLE TELL ME THESE THINGS!!!!!
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Permalink Reply by harvey on
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sounds like we all try to be good neighbors not running the noise makers if not needed
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Permalink Reply by Roy Walker on
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Just an observation but we have had three instances in this general area where an apparatus clears an intersection and the second apparatus has difficulty clearing the same intersection because all eyes are fixed on the first apparatus that has gone through. PLUS PEOPLE PULL OUT AGAIN BEHIND THE FIRST UNIT. I believe the second unit really needs the siren even more than the first.
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Permalink Reply by John Crabbe on
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Happens here too and when multiple rigs respond, especially out of the same station, we try and keep together as a group. Although, this still means the second or even third rig has to be cautious and drive with Due Regard, people do some goofy things when an emergency vehicle comes up. Wasn't there something taught in driver's ed that you pull over to the right if safe to do so? And isn't driver's ed and even a test necessary to obtain a driver's license? Ahh, how quick people forget I guess, I wish I had some video of the past couple days responses and reactions from drivers.
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Permalink Reply by Kern Hicks on
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Ralph, the speed of sound travels at 768 MPH in the air and 4x faster in water, Try as you might, you can't outrun it using rubber tires. Newer cars are much better sound proofed and susceptible to blocking out a siren so don't count on it being heard much less attention being paid to it by an older model car's driver that CAN hear it.
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Permalink Reply by FETC on
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Joshua,
Should we listen to towns people when they complain that our lights and sirens woke them up at 3 am. ? - Well I would say if you don't you obviously do not care about customer service. Ie the people who fund our department through taxes.
Bottom line is whether you have them on all the time or not, If you get into an accident it still comes back to the rules of the road. If we get into an accident while responding isn't going to matter whether I had the lights or lights / sirens on. - Did I bust a red light or stop sign, Yes or No, did I have the right of way, yes or no, if no, driver is cited regardless of the lights/sirens. Traffic fatality becomes vehicular homocide... So the lights and sirens do not replace common sense - maturity.
Roy - I live and work in New Hampshire. In my department, to reduce the liability of an accident such as your example, on an AFA, only the first due apparatus goes lights and sirens and all others go flow of traffic to the scene.
Joshua, even if I am first due, I do not turn on the whacker siren and let it scream the entire time we are responding. It is for one not neccesary, and two it is distracting to communicate with my driver and crew. Besides how do you use a REAL federal Q all the time? It would sound pretty silly if you didn't let off and never let it breathe.
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Permalink Reply by Emmet on
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Mr. Murdock:
There is no law that says that the siren must be on when the emergency lights are on. There is no law that says that the siren must be sounded at maximum volume. If someone tells you otherwise, ask them to show you the law.
The way the chain of command works, firefighters obey orders from the Fire Chief who is ethically obligated to serve the public interest. The Chief would never tell firefighters to sound their sirens in the middle of the night against the wishes of the public. The public is telling him that sirens are too loud at night, causing their families to lose sleep.
It's not a matter of "what other peoples [SIC] thoughts are". It's a matter of the law and obeying orders from the Chief.
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Permalink Reply by Oldman on
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Texas Transportation Code
§ 547.702. ADDITIONAL EQUIPMENT REQUIREMENTS FOR
AUTHORIZED EMERGENCY VEHICLES. (a) An authorized emergency
vehicle may be equipped with a siren, exhaust whistle, or bell:
(1) of a type approved by the department; and
(2) that emits a sound audible under normal conditions
at a distance of at least 500 feet.
(b) The operator of an authorized emergency vehicle shall
use the siren, whistle, or bell when necessary to warn other vehicle
operators or pedestrians of the approach of the emergency vehicle.
An audible device ie. siren is not even required under Texas law. It (the audible device) shall be used (if equipped) when necessary. Nowhere in the statute, does it say it must be used at all times.
At 3am, on a 5 mile back road, with 2 - 3 houses and the rest being farmland, who are you going to move out of the way with a siren? Rabbits? There is a very slight chance someone might be up, so one should drive defensively, but is all the noise really necessary?
Take an urban subdivision at 3 pm on a weekend. The chances of people, especially children being out and about are far greater. However, just as a moth is drawn to a flame, children and maybe some adults are drawn to the streets upon hearing a siren. As others have said, Risk vs Benefit should dictate the use of lights and sirens. My department chooses to turn off sirens in the subdivisions and slow down. The extra few seconds it takes to make the location, is not worth the risks of running over a child who only wanted to see the fire truck.
Much of it is about risk vs benefit, but part is also being a good neighbor.
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But hey, Johnny and Roy did it with the squad.... even on those non-populated mountain dirt roads
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Permalink Reply by Jonathan on
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Ralph when we first put this down in an actual written SOP, every station got a memo of the updated policy. It was mistyped for the responding speed limit, instead of 10mph over, it read 100mph over. We all got a crack outta this since the lowest speed limit in town is 15mph, and not even our fastest engine or even rescue truck(ford f-550) can go 115mph!
But back on topic, 10mph is a good speed, it's just not safe to operate apparatus any faster when you carry so much water and equipment as well as personnel.
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Permalink Reply by Sparky3317 on
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FETC, but if you get into an accident and the rule is that you have your lights and sirens on, even if your following the rules of the road you can still be cited also. And I understand the maturity and common sense.
Im not a whacker that has to have the lights and sirens going all the time but if I am coming to an intersection or cross street while following the rules of the road Id rather have the neighbors be woken up than another car hit me and state they couldnt hear me and me get cited for it.
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