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Freelancing on the Fireground
We recently had a day time residential structure fire where another Department had guys freelancing all over the place. We had a Officer from the other Department there who is a township road worker on the roof with his other township worker who is not a Certified FF trying to vent the roof when the IC demanded them off the roof they just ignored it and continued working. What do you do in this case? The OIC demanded them and they still refuse. We need some help with how to handle this problem and what actions to take to see that this never happens again.
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Mike Schlags (Captain Busy) Retd on
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No Ralph. Red was determined to be universal with the mind set that Fire Captain's helmets are red, which is a symbol of authority. You zap someone with this puppy and I guarantee you that they will as the kid in Southpark says, 'Respect your authoriti"...
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Ralph, I had to delete the post because after watching it again, I noted that it went to a bunch of advertisements... but you understood where I was going with this... :D CBz
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Permalink Reply by Oldman on
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Unfortunately CB,
I couldn't use one of those on my department. My guys would run the batteries down hitting each other with them, making a video and posting it on the web.
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Actually, had a situation similar to that years ago. Our Chief at the time opened an 1 1/2 pushing 150psi up through the roof they were trying to ventilate. There was a mad scramble for the ladder, and he was waiting for them at the foot. After flaming their division C, their attitude changed most Riki Tic.
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Permalink Reply by Fireyladd - Retired Chief Sharp on
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I second Art and BZY's comments. We have a rural agency we MA with that has some of the same features expressed here. We made it clear that you come to the sand box to play you play by safe professional standards or not at all. We have left them standing there a time or two but the point has well been made. I have sat down with their new Chief on many occasion and explained the facts of life to him. Its amazing what happens when this is done. Your Chief needs to be proactive and dictate what is going to happen or live with the consequences of doing nothing but bitch. GIT ER DONE! You are right to ask for help and direction. We are all here to help one another or this is just another social site............
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Permalink Reply by blair4630 on
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Oh, you see, you have it all wrong. I see what's going on here, and you haven't even recognized it. This officer, who defied the OIC's orders, well you see, he's a HERO. Now, apparently you haven't ever recognized or dealt with a HERO before, and therefore don't have the proper awe and respect of such. Let me help you out here, capt.
First, HERO's don't need permission from higher officers, OIC's, etc. They are working under the power invested in them from God himself, so you don't need to bother them with the likes are your mortal and finite knowledge and authority.
Second, HERO's are never wrong. They know everything there is to know about everything. Normally, just so they fit in and don't make everyone else feel bad in comparison, they will hold minimal certs. But don't let that fool you. A HERO with a EMT-B is actually qualified to perform reconstructive thoracic surgery, on multiple patients simultaneously, in space, while fighting a shuttle fire. Likewise, someone with basic essentials and a handful of certs will actually have the knowledge and experience of a 20 year FDNY battalion chief. You should respect and listen to him accordingly.
Third, it really doesn't matter how perilous the situation is, they actually don't need the protective bunkers or the SCBA. Again, they don't want to make the rest of us feel too much like nothing. Their skin is beyond anything that our pithy Nomex can provide, and their lungs our actually steel lined.
Fourth, if you simply stop trying to tell them what to do, and just hang around them at the hall long enough, you might, just might, absorb %0.00001 of their superpowers. That would, like, triple your skills and knowledge. It's easy to hang around with them that much, too, since most HERO's don't have jobs, so they are at the hall all the time.
OK, Captain632, I hope this has been educational and enlightening for you. Don't feel ashamed or embarrassed...we all learn about HERO's in our own time. I know I didn't know about HERO's until I joined my dept. We are lucky enough to have a real live HERO at our dept.
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Well said Blair. Though fiction. LOL! UM Herotion! Is that a word. LOL!
Must be like Safe-ISH!
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Permalink Reply by Just Plain Craig Moyer on
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Years ago we while on a call out of state there were 5 companies from Delaware and 3 companies from PA. There was some type of issue out front with the 1st onscene DE company and PA company who's district it was in. As we were in the back trying to put out the fire this FF came and asked if he could "see" our hose line. I handed it to him and he walk away with it. All the Delaware fire companies except us left the scene only because we didn't know what was going on. Thats one way to handle it.
Another way is to get on the radio and annouce that you need Chief ?? to respond to the scene because he FF's are not acting in a responsible manner. Ask them to stop or leave. If they don't call the police. Extreme, so is being on a roof without premission or putting others in jeopardy.
Lastily contact the chief and let him know if it happens again they will be taken off alarms which is extreme in its own right.
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Permalink Reply by Chief622 on
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Thanks to everyone for their input on this. We have had this problem with this Department on many calls. They just dont understand modern day Fire Tactics and Legal Issues. The most aggravating part of all this is they dont care what they do or how as long wet stuff hits the red stuff and the fire goes out. The Township Worker who comes to these fires without a fire card is definately going to be addressed with the board, especially since the one board member is a representative from the Twp he works in. The other problem may have been at the fire i was describing earlier our OIC was a FF/Medic who was not an actual Officers but he was first on scene, gave the size up, and started OIC duties. I dont know if it was the black helmet ontop of his head that made them give him problems but it still was wrong that they were giving him problems. He seen the roof was already self ventilated so there was no need for a ventilation crew to begin with. He was getting problems from a Capt. & Lt. from that other Department. Also after the fire was put out we called in the State fire Marshall's Office for investigation. We wanted to tape off and secure the scene. When we did this they through a fit that they were asked to clear the scene so it could be secured until investigators got there. When this has happened before and we said something to their Chief he just shrugs his shoulders and doesnt care or relay the message to his Officers of how we are going to operate our fire scenes.
We are having our Officers meeting this weekend to go over this issue. I hope we get some results and take this problem to the end to get the change in behavior from them they need. If not, its probably going to come down to cancelling them on every run possible. I respect the old schools guys highly, but this 1970's version of firefighting is causing problems at our scene. Also both the Departments are total Volunteer with no staffing or pay per call involved.
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isn't NFPA just a recommendation type of org? no teeth... who ever handles the insurance sure would like to know about this... now there's some teeth!
CBz
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Permalink Reply by Robert Drury on
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With this there is not much you can do since they are in your department. I bring the situation up to your chain of command. This would make them aware of the situation and hopefully handle it through there channels. Secondly I speak with your new firefighters that were there if any and let them know the dangers of freelancing. I check your SOPs and see what it recommends you do in that situation and go from there as well. In my department if you freelance and disobey commands from the IC they release you from all duties and terminate you for it.
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Permalink Reply by Norman E. Flanders on
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Capt632......
I agree with all the posts on this discussion.
First they should have checked in with your IC and reported on scene. Then the IC would direct them as to what job they would be assigned.
Below is our policy on freelancing..........
1.12 Member Freelancing:
Under no circumstances will any “freelancing” be allowed by any CFD member.
a.) This will include at any Clarendon Fire Department operation.
b.) At any other fire department or emergency operation when CFD is providing mutual aid assistance or support.
c.) At any other fire department or emergency operation in which the CFD is not providing mutual aid assistance or support.
e.) All firefighters will report to the IC / other designated officer or Clarendon Fire apparatus.
f.) Personnel shall remain with the apparatus or staging area until given an assignment by the Officer in Charge.
g.) Failure to comply with and adhere to this policy will result in disciplinary action.
Good Luck. Stay safe, train often and share knowledge.
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