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New Response Rules for Austin Apparatus
AUSTIN, Texas - Some union leaders question a new Austin city policy that says firetrucks responding to calls must drive the speed limit and fully stop at intersections.
Austin Fire Department Chief Rhoda Mae Kerr said the policy is meant to improve safety for firefighters and motorists.
But Steven Truesdell, president of the Austin Firefighters Association, told the Austin American-Statesman that firefighters' discretion is being curtailed.
"We don't understand if they have some impetus for making these changes," Truesdell said. "They haven't discussed it with us."
Previously, Austin firefighters could drive up to 10 mph over the posted speed limit. Vehicles were not required to stop at intersections, but operators were told to make sure other drivers knew the emergency vehicles needed to proceed.
Kerr said she does not believe that the policy, which took effect Aug. 11, will affect response times.
"It is all about making sure that everyone goes home," Kerr said. "It helps keep our people safer, not only the firefighters, but the community as well."
The new policy is based largely on a 2003 report in EMS Responder magazine, fire department spokeswoman Michelle DeCrane said. The report concluded EMS vehicles going the speed limit and stopping at intersections were operated safer and had limited significant delays.
The change is part of a department-wide effort to turn informal practices into formal policy, DeCrane said.
Copyright 2009 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.
Austin Fire Department Chief Rhoda Mae Kerr said the policy is meant to improve safety for firefighters and motorists.
But Steven Truesdell, president of the Austin Firefighters Association, told the Austin American-Statesman that firefighters' discretion is being curtailed.
"We don't understand if they have some impetus for making these changes," Truesdell said. "They haven't discussed it with us."
Previously, Austin firefighters could drive up to 10 mph over the posted speed limit. Vehicles were not required to stop at intersections, but operators were told to make sure other drivers knew the emergency vehicles needed to proceed.
Kerr said she does not believe that the policy, which took effect Aug. 11, will affect response times.
"It is all about making sure that everyone goes home," Kerr said. "It helps keep our people safer, not only the firefighters, but the community as well."
The new policy is based largely on a 2003 report in EMS Responder magazine, fire department spokeswoman Michelle DeCrane said. The report concluded EMS vehicles going the speed limit and stopping at intersections were operated safer and had limited significant delays.
The change is part of a department-wide effort to turn informal practices into formal policy, DeCrane said.
Copyright 2009 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Ryan Angel on
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The stopping i can see because its like that in my state but no going over the speed limit is bull it does hurt response time a lot. Just wait and see 2-5 mins may not seem like a lot but it could save a house a person trapped in a house or a car it could mean the pts life. If the general public would do wat there suppose to do and move the hell out of the way for EMERGENCY vehicles like pull over and not just stop in the middle of the road it would be so much better. I thank the policy is bull shit they tried that shit here and when it was a city aldermans house on fire and it took us the 3 extra mins to get there the policy went out the door, but we do stop at all intersections. It only takes one bad call to change it.
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Permalink Reply by Michael D.Penick on
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I instituted an SOP in our department some time ago regarding emergency response. Our SOP states that all responding vehicles are required to stop at all negative right-of way intersections. All vehicles are also required to slow and be prepared to stop at all other intersections and their maximum speeds on any response be no more than 10 mph over the speed limit at any time. This policy has not impacted our response times on the calls but there was a lot of grumbling from the firefighters that it would when I first introduced it.
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Permalink Reply by Oldman on
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I found this interesting on Fox 7 report last night. The report started much like the AP:
"They must drive the speed limit and stop at red lights and stop signs even in emergencies".
Ok, well that clarifies it a little. To say they "must stop at intersections" might include every side street.
But... the end of the news report has this paragraph:
"Fire Chief Kerr met with members of the Austin Firefighters Association this afternoon to discuss any change in the policy. No changes took place but the Chief says firefighters do have some leeway on the speed limit depending on the situation".
Now do they have a policy of doing the speed limit or not? And who is to determine "leeway"?
http://www.myfoxaustin.com/dpp/news/local/082009_Fire_Trucks_Must_S...
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Permalink Reply by Jim Owens on
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I suspect a lot of this is "who the hell does that woman think she is telling us how to drive"
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Permalink Reply by Jeff Betz on
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Damnthing - I was just being a smart-***. I am all for safety, I have been on our city safety committee for many years and have had to argue to get guys to wear safety vests WAY before there was a rule to make it a law to do so. I just find this real to be classic over-reaction in play again. I receive Billy's updates from the Secret List, the IAFF notices, this sites' updates, another similar sites' updates, and a few others as well.
I can also realize that while we have a LONG way to go for safety issues, there are probably thousands of calls ran each day all over our country that respond to and return safely by drivers making good decisions while operating their emergency vehicle. I know it sounds like I don't care about safety, but oh well, I really do. We (collectively as a fire service) have focused SO much on all of our shortcomings that are killing personnel, that we sometimes over-react, which I feel this is an example of. If you look at the stuff that Billy posts, or others, you can easily see that a lot of them are people who for some reason still have their head up their a**(let's try to be honest about it) all these years after we have tried with great effort to educate people.
I guess I just don't agree, and I know I'll be the minority, that's OK.
Take care sir, thanks for bantering professionally, it makes it more fun!
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I find it funny that we folks who don't agree are put in the category of those who don't want to arrive safely. Looks like on this topic the ones with more balls than brains are the guys like me who think the rule is a little over-board.
Art, I'm guessing you're OK with the accusations, "sticks and stones" ya know?
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Permalink Reply by Paul Stoops on
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WOW!! This topic is the last thing I would think of. Trying to enforce traffic rules while driving of fire apparatus in emergency response, no faith in your drivers. Proceeding through intersections with caution is the ideal thing but stopping at the intersections, where is she trying to go with this. I can understand safety, but the driver is in full control of the apparatus and should be aware of the surroundings. This is a situation where seconds count, Its just slowing the response time to the public in which you proudly serve and protect.
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Permalink Reply by Art "ChiefReason" Goodrich on
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You Betz cha!
You caught my obscure reference to Lt. Ray; ah, nevermind.
Yes; there has been too many apparatus accidents in the news.
Yes; we need to take a fresh look at whether our policies are solid.
Yes; we should slow down at intersections one and all and if we don't have the green light, we may have to stop.
Yes; I would support 10 mph over with due regard under certain circumstances.
Yes; that's why fire trucks have governors.
Yes; sticks and stones.
But I thoroughly enjoy a professional discussion on topics that affect us.
Yes?
TCSS.
Art
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Permalink Reply by Robert T. Marchetti on
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Don't the Austin Fire officials know about interupters? They are a tool for emergency vehicles installed on traffic lights and lightbars on emergency vehicle lightbars that cause the oppsing traffic light to turn red when emergency vehicles approach an intersection.
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Permalink Reply by Ron Ayotte on
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When stopped, shutting off the warning devices and waiting for the light to change with the flow of traffic?
Sorry, that is insanity, especially with the timing of some traffic signals. What if one is the 15th vehicle in the queue, and the light is timed for ten vehicles.. and the fire is in your first due?
"sorry you lost your house, sorry you lost a family member/pet, but we were following our protocols"...
I hope that any FD and community that institutes this has a bank account big enough to fill in all the zeroes on the check when they get sued.
Drive with due regard.. that is common sense.
PS: we don't "outdrive" our sirens.. it is impossible.
Has the Fire Service found an exception to the rule on physics?
Does the speed of sound change when one gets in a fire truck or other emergency response vehicle?
How can one outdrive a FedQ when you can hear ( and feel!) the subwoofers on a car stereo system half a mile before the vehicle even reaches you?
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we don't "outdrive" our sirens.. it is impossible.
I have to disagree. The speed of sound doesn't change, however today's vehicles are a lot tighter, and have more sound deadening insulation than did vehicle years ago. It's not that we are driving faster than the sound, but we are closing in faster than the vehicles insulation lets the sound reach the driver, and allow the driver to recognize the sound of an emergency vehicle, and react. At the same time, they are listening to the radio, texting/talking on their cell phone, etc. Your analogy of the "subwoofer" is exactly why they won't hear a Q. If you can hear the bass a half mile away, imagine what it is like inside the vehicle.
As far as turning the lights and sirens off and waiting, I'm sure most of our brother/sisters in Austin would not do it, but I know a couple who probably would just to try to "prove a point".
Drive with due regard.. that is common sense. I agree, however, common sense is not something which can be taught, and we all know someone who doesn't have the common sense of a dirt clod.
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