Explain This?

Could someone explain this?
Why would someone do this if they have ground lines?
I've similar photos like this one

Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Kevin Dunbar on February 3, 2009 at 5:35pm

Well, not seeing the complete scene I do not think it is fair to comment, but one guess is that this is a surround and drown and they just happen to be in a better or faster position to apply some water.......

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Permalink Reply by Cody W. Nelson on February 3, 2009 at 6:03pm

Agreed!

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Permalink Reply by Mike Schlags (Captain Busy) Retd on February 3, 2009 at 6:29pm

Looks like someplace that was condemned in the first place... If you have the tools, use them. If the surround and drown tactic is being employed, why not use a master stream appliance that keeps firefighters out of the structure.

Editorial: Not to be Mr. Obvious here but I am assuming you have smelled the acidic smoke inside a structure, even when masked up need to know that dermal exposure alone can be a pathway for toxic chemical exposure. Key question here is how many days after you fight a structure fire does it take until you stop smelling the smoke coming out of your pores when you wash your hair? Two, three, more? You've been dosed bud.

Specifically, benzenes, aliphatic hydrocarbons, organic mists and vapors and a host of other chemicals like cyandide and a lot of other really nasty things are airborne, making contact with skin and absorbing into our bodies to find specific target organs. Overhaul stage is the worst because as the concrete cools, the porosity of the concrete just like the pores in your skin close up and release more unburned radicals that combine and enter into our bodies through inhalation, absorbtion, ingestion and sometimes even injection. This is why firefighters commonly die early due to cancers and other health related issues.

So, back to the use of an elevated master stream at ground level... what's the harm? Seem's like it's good "out of the box" type of thinking with firefighter safety being the key issue here.

Stay safe!
Mike

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Permalink Reply by Aaron Robbins on February 3, 2009 at 6:34pm

thanks man never though of it like that

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Permalink Reply by Fire Chick on February 3, 2009 at 6:45pm

that is what i was forgetting the ground line!! lol

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Permalink Reply by Joe Stoltz on February 3, 2009 at 6:48pm

That monitor nozzle can probably put out about 500-750 gpm and can be maneuvered at will. How many ground lines would it take to achieve the same fire flow?

Also, this incident may have begun as an interior attack with the bucket to the roof for ventilation. Then, the attack switched to defensive with everyone pulled out and the master stream turned loose.

I'd make another comment about the truckies wanting to do some real work for a change, but I don't want to start any arguments... :o)

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Permalink Reply by Ray on February 3, 2009 at 6:53pm

Comming from a rookie, my guess was a haz. mat. on the ground.....

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Permalink Reply by Michael Vito on February 3, 2009 at 7:31pm

I'm not surprised at this picture. seen it on FDNY videos. They do that with their tower ladder trucks.

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Permalink Reply by Tony Leonard,Jr. on February 3, 2009 at 7:39pm

Well given its a service station there maybe some...ok alot of... oil/anti-freeze on the ground from melting bottles,not to mention other fluids that are super slippery.Thus making attack hazardous to insurance premiums,Seems to me like a good,but interesting call to me. Remember to C.Y.A.!

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Permalink Reply by FETC on February 3, 2009 at 7:41pm

This is a gas station, which I assume was heavily involved in fire due to the burn pattern of the service bays and the timeline of this picture appears to be closer to the later stages of extinguishment. As others have stated, it is GPM that interupts the ever growing fire curve and many do not have the manpower to flow 2 or 3 big hand lines right away.

There is also a nearby exposure that I am sure was a concern in the early stages of saving the neighborhood. Stretching the usual residential handline on a commercial fire is one of the biggest mistakes made by first due inexperienced company officers at a commercial occupancy.

The other thing is this tactic can be used with a quint in the earlier stages of a really big fire for RAPID knock down and then transition to an interior hand line attack for completion of extinguishment and/or overhaul.

Hey Ted, I can honestly say though if truckies want to put out a fire they will chose the above tactic, besides if I pick up a hoseline, I might get a rash on my hands - LOL

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Permalink Reply by Oldman on February 3, 2009 at 10:47pm

Pasadena TX, had a fire which was in a large liquor store. They utilized the same tactic to knock the majority of fire down and then made entry to overhaul. Makes sense to me, and there is a lot less equipment to pick up and clean.