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Black turn outs and safety
What color of turnouts do you use and why. I can't imagine using black because if I go down in a fire, It will be harder to find in black.Yes , I get you have the pass device but sometimes hearing where the sound is coming from in the comotion is hard.I prefer the normal tan color.I clean mine after every fire.Be safe and God Bless all of you.
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Damon Dyer on
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Key word above was i . The statement was my experience i never said anyone was doing it wrong . They all protected me very well and safety is the #1 thing i look for .
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Permalink Reply by BillySFCVFD on
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Nice bunker gear. Observation: This most visible parts are the yellow stripes. TCSS
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Permalink Reply by Ben Waller on
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The short answer is that we certified our own instructors through our training division.
The methodology was...Several of us attended TIC classes at FDIC and other conferences. A neighboring department's deputy chief is also a TIC developer for Bullard. We also had our last group of Lieutenant candidates do objective-based research on expanding our TIC availability, funding, training, and tactics. Between those three sources and some of our own fireground and hazmat experiences, we've developed an in-house certification program. It is objective-based.
The basic TIC class is a classroom session followed by skills development in our maze, using simulated smoke (disco fog). We have developed two advanced modules for the TIC training. The first is an adjunct to our two-dat RIT training. That includes searching a muliple occupancy and a large open building (big box) by hand, by search rope, by hoseline, with a TIC, and with combinations. The second is a hazmat class we teach using an infrared thermometer (Raytek) and a TIC in tandem. We have a variety of liquids flowing in pipes, hot containers, apparatus engine heat sources (check out the radiator hoses with a TIC after the engine has run for 10 or 15 mintues) and comparing heat blooms from apparatus treadplate that's been heated by the sun and even the heat blooms from the gas stoves in the firehouse kitchens.
Our fire-based TIC training puts the students in full gear and SCBA for all hands-on training. The hazmat module starts in Level D and progresses to using the TIC in Level B. We don't currently use the TIC in Level A because our TICs are not intrinsically safe, nor are they resistant to strong corrosives. Our hazmat recon uses a variety of atmospheric monitors along with the TIC and the IR Thermometer. The TIC/IR operator always enters behind his partner who carries the air monitors. That ensures that we don't put the TIC into a flammable environment.
We also mandate TIC use for interior fire searches and our RIT has a TIC as part of their mandatory gear cache.
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See what you started Ray got to stir the pot huh . LOL
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"The" not "this". My bad.
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The science to which I referred is that dark colored fabrics absorb more heat than light colors. The fact that dark colors absorb more heat was studied and proven in the 1700's by no less a personage than Benjamin Franklin, the father of American firefighting. http://www.jstor.org/pss/225739
This is so well-known scientifically that grade-school science projects can demonstrate it. http://www.colormatters.com/science_faq.html Even an 8th-grader can show that black fabrics absorb more radiated heat than lighter colors.
Certainly gear color isn't the most important element of firefighter safety, but it is a factor. Your apparatus color comparison isn't really pertinent to the discussion, because the gear color affects heat absorption by the firefighters. With heat stress being the number 1 firefighter killer, and being struck while working roadside accidents being another big contributor, it makes sense to do even the little things to make our job safer.
One example of black being the best color to absorb heat is the device used for calibrating infrared thermometers. That device is a "Blackbody" - in other words, it is black because that color is the best color to absorb and retain heat. It's not a "Tanbody", a "Yellowbody", or a "Whitebody". http://www.yourdictionary.com/blackbody
The answer to UV degradation is to replace the gear when it shows signs of damage, ragardless of what color it is.
I'll repeat my point - the only reason I've heard for wearing black gear is tradition. Can you show me a study that indicates that tradition improves firefighter safety?
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Permalink Reply by Joey "BigShow" De Piano on
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We use the tans but i have to admit I have a soft spot for the black turnouts only for tradition sake for safety I agree tan and keeps you cooler when in the sun over black.
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Why choose a color that inherently absorbs more radiant heat from the fire, regardless of how well the liner is designed to protect you from that heat?
I'd really like to know why the defenders of black gear choose that color? I've heard "tradition", "we like it", and "it works for us". What I haven't heard is that it's safer, cooler, more visible, or a similar safety-based reason.
We have heard several safety-based reasons to wear lighter colors. I do wonder why the firefighters who like black gear haven't offered a similar rationale.
BTW, I used to wear black gear, when it was the only color available back in the 1970's, so I'm not an inherent black-gear hater.
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Permalink Reply by Engineco913 on
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careful you don't "put a date" on yourself there Chief. :)
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Permalink Reply by Dave on
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Ben, honestly..I dont think it really matters. Black hides dirt better, we all cant wash our gear after every call, and honestly...how much more heat are you really absorbing.
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In the words of Ben:
I'd really like to know why the defenders of black gear choose that color? I've heard "tradition", "we like it", and "it works for us". What I haven't heard is that it's safer, cooler, more visible, or a similar safety-based reason.
The words of Billy
I underlined a big concern. None of us work alone and must be seen by all at all times. I have heard to term "black out" and never "yellow, tan, orange, etc.. out" SWAT wears black to keep from being seen. Thoughts?
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