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Making The Stretch: Why "Rip and Run" Doesn't Work
Grabbing the pipe, a fold and running like a bat out of hell will almost guarantee that the second due will have your fire.
The following video is from Delta, British Columbia, Canada. Let me preface this by stating this is not a condemnation of the members depicted or the department as a whole. No fire department or fireground operation is perfect. We can all learn from each other.
I'm not certain, but it looks like there are three lines coming off this engine at one time, by one firefighter. Maybe they have a certain hoseload that is unique to their response area. If you're from Delta Fire, give us a shout; we'd like to hear about it and learn from you. One thing is certain though, there's a mess in the middle, and it required the nozzleman to leave the nozzle and fix the problem.
When we pull our attack lines, one of the main reasons why we might have a problem is because we rush. A second reason is because the hose was repacked wrong and/or sloppy. No matter if you use a flat load or the minuteman, grabbing the hose wrong will cause it to come off wrong, or flake out wrong. What you end up with is spaghetti somewhere between the wagon and the fire building.
By the time you get it straightened out, the second due will thank you.
Check your beds.
Photo courtesy of author.
Read more of Backstep Firefighter and others at FireEMSBlogs.com.
The following video is from Delta, British Columbia, Canada. Let me preface this by stating this is not a condemnation of the members depicted or the department as a whole. No fire department or fireground operation is perfect. We can all learn from each other.
I'm not certain, but it looks like there are three lines coming off this engine at one time, by one firefighter. Maybe they have a certain hoseload that is unique to their response area. If you're from Delta Fire, give us a shout; we'd like to hear about it and learn from you. One thing is certain though, there's a mess in the middle, and it required the nozzleman to leave the nozzle and fix the problem.
When we pull our attack lines, one of the main reasons why we might have a problem is because we rush. A second reason is because the hose was repacked wrong and/or sloppy. No matter if you use a flat load or the minuteman, grabbing the hose wrong will cause it to come off wrong, or flake out wrong. What you end up with is spaghetti somewhere between the wagon and the fire building.
By the time you get it straightened out, the second due will thank you.
Check your beds.
Photo courtesy of author.
Read more of Backstep Firefighter and others at FireEMSBlogs.com.
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by phillip hice on
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We use a baker lay on all preconnects. Use a strap to pull it off so it comes off like it supose to
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Permalink Reply by Fireman Larry on
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I really hate it when that happens, LET'S MAKE THIS EASY, "PRACTICE MAKES PERFECT"
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Permalink Reply by John Crabbe on
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LET'S MAKE THIS EASY, "PRACTICE MAKES PERFECT"
Cuts to the point right there. Although to expand a bit, perfect practice makes perfect. It is one thing to pull a line out when training and think you are now well versed, but another to routinely pull a line.
I haven't seen much of an issue when deploying a line.......and second due wouldn't be going in before first due.....but have seen issues about reloading the line. Pulling a line routinely keeps folks proficient in both loading and unloading.
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Permalink Reply by Jeff Cole on
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There are some very effective methods of loading hose for rapid, and effective deployment, yet far too many engine companies fall short of this basic evolution due to lack of training. Parade-ready hose loads that are simply stacked layer upon layer do not allow for properly executed stretch. Many times it's the design of the apparatus that casues the problems. Mataydale hose compartments that are up so high it's impossible to shoulder a load properly makes for a big mess of tangled spaghetti.
Pistol-grip nozzles that do not fit in hose trays, get hung-up when pulling from one side or another...and those who have no concept of where "loops" should be placed also create problems. I can't count how many engines I come across with two nicely folded loops at the very bottom folds. Go ahead and pull 'em, and you are not only fighting the rest of the line, but if you do manage to pull them out, all your gonna get is the bottom of the load! Whats the point?
Basically, a hose load should be used that allows you remove the hose from the apparatus safely, without getting hit with a wayward nozzle, and without a tangled mess that takes more time to straighten out than it does to control the fire. With fewer firefighters riding the seats, it should be kept simple. At least 50' of hose should end-up at the point of entry, and arranged to feed straight-in, and not from the sides, to make the advance as easy as possible. Don't forget the doorway position is an extremely important factor as well.
Our cross-lays are are high enough that it is just about impossible to grab the nozzle without having to step up on the running board (which can lead to falls, and ankle injuries). Grabbing two loops that are side by side allows a working length of 50' or more to go to the point the hose is dropped. A simple nylon dog-coller type strap secures the 50' hose and nozzle to the loops so the nozzle does not fall out, get hung-up, or hit your head. There is a second set of double loops that holds the remaining hose that another firefighter, IF available, can pull right after the nozzle firefgihter pulls the first loops, and that empties the bed. Otherwise, the apparatus operator pulls them of, and the hose lays out as the nozzle man continues to move, or otherwise is flaked out.
"Triple pack" can work well too. Much of it just depends on your apparatus design. There is no need to have to peel fold by fold, from a parade-ready engine. Anyone who grabs a nozzle and maybe one fold of line needs to be retrained in the most basic of all evolutions - Hose deployment.
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Permalink Reply by capcityff on
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We never gabe that problem. I know you're from my area so you know how we operate.(DCFD) Both us and PGFD are always running/moving quickly when pulling lines. There are several reasons why this does not happen to us. First, our lines are set up differently. I'll try to find some video or a picture later. Second, many of the better companies re-rack their lines EVERY morning or at least any that look a little sloppy. Third, is what Fireman Larry posted, practice. We are a very aggressive department and we pull lines on every box alarm. No one wants to lose a fire to the company behind them. This might not mean much to some of the rural/vollies out there, but in the city the companies are very close together and it becomes a competition at every fire.
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Permalink Reply by Vic Silverfish on
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"We pull lines on every box alarm"
THIS is why DC and PG are good at what they do.
When I started, I hated my chief for making us pull lines all the time. Rain, shine, snow, whatever. Now that I'm a bit older, I understand it. You would still see the occasional tangle (usually from a shoulder load falling off of someone's shoulder) but it was rare, and since it happened a lot in training, we were quick to fix it.
Practice, practice, practice. Do the dull stuff as much as you can. None of this is all that difficult, but we need to do it 100% perfect the first time, every time!
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I agree that it definitely sucks at times. However it doesn't take too long to get to that point where I could now do it in my sleep. It's become second nature.
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Permalink Reply by Pararescue on
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Just quickly watching this video I see two things. One, the FF laying the line is running. I was told once that running at the scene of any emergency shows the public your unprofessional, unless there is a rescue, but it doesn't look like there is one going on. Did a great job of making spaghetti and expending a lot of energy that could be used in the fire. But the roll up doors are a concern. Chock them put a 12 foot pike under it, something to keep the springs from letting go and cutting off your water and your way out! Commercial buildings are a whole different beast, train for them.
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I also just noticed that he ran up to the door and then dropped the line. Could you see that happening in PG? haha That thing would be stolen in seconds by another company.
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I thought he pulled off a 500 foot preconnect, it's actually, 3 different preconnects
I don't think he was the only one to blame, the Engineer had poor placement of the Apparatus, the FF, should have pulled the hose straight back, then taken it to the side, instead of pulling it, sideways.
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Permalink Reply by Bill Carey on
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Remember, "No fire department or fireground operation is perfect. We can all learn from each other."
Vic, Cap,
I know a few companies in D.C. and P.G. that have taken the wrong position, stretched short, committed other errors.
Jason,
It is not so much that running looks bad in front of the public, for at that time all they generally may care about is when and if we are going to put the fire out (see "Where's The Water? Delays and Reasons Why"). For the most part, in my area (metro Washington, D.C.) running isn't thought of as running rabid or with little regard for actions. It is a lesson in speed taught through the academies and reinforced while probationers, recruits and rookies gain more working knowledge. Likewise our geography adds to the effort. In Washington, D.C. we have 33 engines, 16 trucks and three rescue squad companies in 68 square miles. Add the quick response due to the closeness of companies to specific unit and riding assignments and you have a fast i.e. fluid, fireground operation. The same applies to some parts of Prince George's County and surrounding counties.
On the opposite, you have fire departments that operate on their fireground with very detailed unit and riding assignments. For example, the FDNY, who you hardly see running when stretching hoselines. The proven manner - for their working environment - that they use requires members to handle detailed tasks, and in turn companies to handle greater detailed tasks, almost in chronological order at times. Their use of the truck companies locating and reporting the location of the fire and then the engine company stretching in, is built upon their number (companies) and various buildings encountered.
Is one better than the other? No. Is one preferred over the other? At times, yes, for many reasons, some incorrect. Much like you have to set up your bed for what works best for you, you have to pull your lines the same way. In my specific area, many companies due to their position due on box alarms, find that while they have preconnects, they fight more fire with the 250' or the 400' line.
What works for you successfully is what matters.
Bill
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Not true. Here's a few clips with scenes of us running a line.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IW-E0Ld0lTw&feature=related Look at 55 seconds and 1:40 in that video.
Here's another on scene of a box alarm. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=66AGrE6JTh0&feature=related
Then in both recruit class videos there are several good examples of it being taught at the academy.(1:15 in the first one.)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=07mhWyHjCVo&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dkQ1Lyqco1U&feature=related
Like Bill Carey mentions in the next post. We have this technique drilled into our heads from day oen at rookie school. We pull lines on every box alarm and become very efficient at doing it. Just like anything, running isn't as dangerous is practiced often.
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