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Making The Stretch: Why "Rip and Run" Doesn't Work
Grabbing the pipe, a fold and running like a bat out of hell will almost guarantee that the second due will have your fire.
The following video is from Delta, British Columbia, Canada. Let me preface this by stating this is not a condemnation of the members depicted or the department as a whole. No fire department or fireground operation is perfect. We can all learn from each other.
I'm not certain, but it looks like there are three lines coming off this engine at one time, by one firefighter. Maybe they have a certain hoseload that is unique to their response area. If you're from Delta Fire, give us a shout; we'd like to hear about it and learn from you. One thing is certain though, there's a mess in the middle, and it required the nozzleman to leave the nozzle and fix the problem.
When we pull our attack lines, one of the main reasons why we might have a problem is because we rush. A second reason is because the hose was repacked wrong and/or sloppy. No matter if you use a flat load or the minuteman, grabbing the hose wrong will cause it to come off wrong, or flake out wrong. What you end up with is spaghetti somewhere between the wagon and the fire building.
By the time you get it straightened out, the second due will thank you.
Check your beds.
Photo courtesy of author.
Read more of Backstep Firefighter and others at FireEMSBlogs.com.
The following video is from Delta, British Columbia, Canada. Let me preface this by stating this is not a condemnation of the members depicted or the department as a whole. No fire department or fireground operation is perfect. We can all learn from each other.
I'm not certain, but it looks like there are three lines coming off this engine at one time, by one firefighter. Maybe they have a certain hoseload that is unique to their response area. If you're from Delta Fire, give us a shout; we'd like to hear about it and learn from you. One thing is certain though, there's a mess in the middle, and it required the nozzleman to leave the nozzle and fix the problem.
When we pull our attack lines, one of the main reasons why we might have a problem is because we rush. A second reason is because the hose was repacked wrong and/or sloppy. No matter if you use a flat load or the minuteman, grabbing the hose wrong will cause it to come off wrong, or flake out wrong. What you end up with is spaghetti somewhere between the wagon and the fire building.
By the time you get it straightened out, the second due will thank you.
Check your beds.
Photo courtesy of author.
Read more of Backstep Firefighter and others at FireEMSBlogs.com.
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Bill Carey on
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A recent blog post from Brotherhood Instructors shows the other side to "running" that I was mentioning earlier, that of deliberate, methodical actions based on specific department operations. Nate DeMarse does a great job dissecting parts of five videos showing the successful knockdown of a taxpayer fire.
FDNY: Taxpayer Fire Discussion
- Bill
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Permalink Reply by FETC on
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This is my opinion but it looks to me they have 400' preconnects which is the problem right there. The KISS part starts long before you place you hands on a hose, regardless of the size or type of lay.
Too much hose for a short staffed crew of (2). There are many better options for short staffed engine companies.
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Permalink Reply by capcityff on
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We pull our 400' preconnect with two people on a daily basis in DC. Not a big deal at all. Hell one person can pull it if you learn the proper way. It looks like these guys just aren't trained properly for what they're doing.
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Cap. I will agree with you on that one. Training fixes alot of things.
It looks like the firefighter was alone. It is not the first due officers responsibility to stretch the first line. Can it be done with one yes, with alot of training to get proficient on getting the weight distributed on your shoulder. For most in the world though... one guy can't do it smoothly.
Now take into consideration a short firefighter or one with a weak upper body and you have a tangled mess or a buried firefighter that the public just says, WTF?
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Permalink Reply by Pararescue on
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What is a Baker lay? Or more to the point what does it look like?
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My Department leaves 2 long loops to "hook and lay", we put the nozzle in there. Personally I'm afraid were gonna lay lines while we're rollin. If I were to design a top mount I'd have 2 1 3/4" and 1 2.5" pre connects come off the back. And in those useless cross lays, put the high rise packs. All so good for spiting down a 2.5 to 1 3/4" instead of laying an additional line. We only do this on houses that are set farther off the road and we want the same pressure.
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Permalink Reply by Ben Waller on
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Crosslays are not "useless" if the hose bed and the hose load are properly designed.
As for unintendo laying line while you're rolling, hose retention systems prevent that.
Hose retention systems are mandatory for all new apparatus with exposed hose beds, and are an easy and relatively inexpensive retrofit on existing apparatus.
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ugh, Cap you suck! lol OK Well after looking at DC running and pulling lines I need to correct my statement. Don't run with the hose until you clear the hose from the bed. That way your not stretching 3 lines at a time. I personally don't because it's how I control my excitement and enthusiasm. And I tripped once. lol Man my knee hurt. hehe
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Touche, and my department is structured after the FDNY. But maybe it's time to practice a nice trot with the line. As we say "Train... train.... train. And when you have it down TRAIN HARDER!"
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Permalink Reply by Mike "Lapo" Lapotasky on
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I disagree with your comment about the two or four big loops on the botttom. If the hose is packed "upside down" you can shoulder and it flakes off the top as you walk. The little remaining hose can be dropped at the point of access and will feed into the structure.
The tragic results of a "spaghetti pile" can be seen in the LODD report of Cincy FD FF Oscar Armstrong. A fully staffed crew should never allow a FF to have flake out a pack by themselves either. Manpower issues do exist, but where they don't, this should not be permitted. FF safety on the F'ground is EVERYONE's responsibility.
Oscar Armstrong III, LODD Report:
http://www.iafflocal48.org/pdfs/enhancedloddfinal.pdf
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Let's be honest. The DC "power walk" (I wouldnt call it running) is the way to go. Walking works too. Slow is smooth and smooth is fast.
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Permalink Reply by Moose on
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The "upside down" pack is called the Minute Man. You load the first length of hose and set the coupling aside, than you lay in the nozzle attached to the line and laod bed like usual but with the nozzle on bottom and sticking out a little from the bed. Load the remaining hose on top and than connect to the coupling you set aside earlier. By grabbing the nozzle and pulling hose on to your shoulder you can than deploy the hose as you walk to the fire area, than flake any remaining hose out before attack. It is very convenient but like anything else, you need to train in the proper use and re-packing of this load in order for it to be effective at all.
I see it too many times too, where the companies just throw in folds any old place with no clear plan in mind other than to "Make it look cool, like FDNY does it!!!!" ......(sigh). Every company should find the hose load that works for their manpower issues and response area, than train on it monthly. Firefighter 101, does it exist any more? LOL Great topic all, and good points.
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