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In the line of duty?
Update October 3, 2008:
"Ronald W. Thomas, the Wellsville volunteer firefighter who died trying to save two drowning fishermen at a trout derby last year, has been posthumously awarded the Carnegie Medal for his bravery, the Carnegie Hero Fund Commission announced Thursday.
"The medal comes just a couple of weeks after Thomas became the first recipient of New York State’s Volunteer of Valor award.
"Pittsburgh steelmaker and philanthropist Andrew Carnegie started the fund in 1904 to recognize men and women who risk their lives while saving or attempting to save the lives of others. "
http://www.buffalonews.com/cityregion/otherwny/story/453906.html
BELMONT, NY - Local volunteer firefighters are urging Allegany County lawmakers to pay death benefits to the family of fallen Wellsville firefighter Ron Thomas, who lost his life after he dove into the Genesee River to rescue someone else.
Mr. Thomas died on April 29, 2007, after he dove into the Genesee River to rescue someone who had fallen into the water during the Wellsville Trout Derby.
Shortly thereafter, state officials began investigating Mr. Thomas’s death, trying to determine whether or not he died in the line of duty. Had he been in the line of duty during his death, Mr. Thomas’ surviving family would be eligible for a death benefit package.
Now an administrative law judge in Rochester is determining if, in fact, Mr. Thomas’ family has benefits due to them. The decision is based around whether or not Mr. Thomas was responding to a call as a firefighter or acting on his own when he attempted the rescue.
(County Fire Coordinator) Gallman is arguing that in an emergency situation, a responsible firefighter may not necessarily wait for the tones that indicate an emergency situation. Mr. Thomas had been an eyewitness to several people falling into the water.
“There is a thin borderline between what is on duty and what is not, I grant that,” Mr. Gallman said. “In a case where they actually act, they should be on duty. You can’t wait for the tone if your watching the act in front of you.”
Mr. Thomas is survived by his wife, Susan; daughter, Katie; two sons, Scott and Ryan; his mother, Esther Thomas; his foster father, Theodore Bliven; and a niece and nephew.
He was a 35-year member of the Dyke Street Engine Company, where he was a past captain and an officer.
In May 2008 the court decided that FF Thomas did in fact die in the line of duty, and his family was awarded the death benefit package.
"Ronald W. Thomas, the Wellsville volunteer firefighter who died trying to save two drowning fishermen at a trout derby last year, has been posthumously awarded the Carnegie Medal for his bravery, the Carnegie Hero Fund Commission announced Thursday.
"The medal comes just a couple of weeks after Thomas became the first recipient of New York State’s Volunteer of Valor award.
"Pittsburgh steelmaker and philanthropist Andrew Carnegie started the fund in 1904 to recognize men and women who risk their lives while saving or attempting to save the lives of others. "
http://www.buffalonews.com/cityregion/otherwny/story/453906.html
BELMONT, NY - Local volunteer firefighters are urging Allegany County lawmakers to pay death benefits to the family of fallen Wellsville firefighter Ron Thomas, who lost his life after he dove into the Genesee River to rescue someone else.
Mr. Thomas died on April 29, 2007, after he dove into the Genesee River to rescue someone who had fallen into the water during the Wellsville Trout Derby.
Shortly thereafter, state officials began investigating Mr. Thomas’s death, trying to determine whether or not he died in the line of duty. Had he been in the line of duty during his death, Mr. Thomas’ surviving family would be eligible for a death benefit package.
Now an administrative law judge in Rochester is determining if, in fact, Mr. Thomas’ family has benefits due to them. The decision is based around whether or not Mr. Thomas was responding to a call as a firefighter or acting on his own when he attempted the rescue.
(County Fire Coordinator) Gallman is arguing that in an emergency situation, a responsible firefighter may not necessarily wait for the tones that indicate an emergency situation. Mr. Thomas had been an eyewitness to several people falling into the water.
“There is a thin borderline between what is on duty and what is not, I grant that,” Mr. Gallman said. “In a case where they actually act, they should be on duty. You can’t wait for the tone if your watching the act in front of you.”
Mr. Thomas is survived by his wife, Susan; daughter, Katie; two sons, Scott and Ryan; his mother, Esther Thomas; his foster father, Theodore Bliven; and a niece and nephew.
He was a 35-year member of the Dyke Street Engine Company, where he was a past captain and an officer.
In May 2008 the court decided that FF Thomas did in fact die in the line of duty, and his family was awarded the death benefit package.
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Greenman on
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I wonder this: if he had had a beer while at the fishing derby would he still be considered to be in the line of duty if the department's SOPs prohibited a member from responding for 24-hours after he had even a single drink?
From reading different forums, I see that many people think Firefighters should not repsond at all if they have had even a small amount of alcohol while "off-duty," yet they will claim he died "in the line of duty" while acting to save others while in the same "off-duty" status.
For the record: The story does not say he had consumed any alcohol and I am not saying he did, I am pointing out a hypothetical question for discussion's sake.
IF he had consumed one (1) beer while fishing AND his department prohibited firefighters from repsonding for x number of hours after consuming (let's say eight hours since his last drink), and he dove in to attempt a resuce than he would have been "off-duty" and acting as a good samaritan (albeit a dumb good samaritan - don't ever drink and swim). However, if the department had no such rule, or more logically had a rule prohibiting firefighters from responding if their BAC was over a legal limit (say .05 or .08%) and he acted to attempt a rescue (preferably with rope or pole if possible), then he would not be "off-duty" since he would still legally be permitted to respond to emergencies as a firefighter.
We can't have our cake and eat it too. Zero-tolerance rules are double-edged swords.
GM
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Permalink Reply by lutan1 on
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UPDATE: May 23, 2008 - A workers’ compensation law judge has ruled the family of Ron Thomas, a Wellsville volunteer firefighter who died last year while trying to make a rescue, should be compensated for his death.
That's fantastic news!!!!
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Whilst I agree in principle with what you're saying, don't forget that lawyers and judges, etc argue LAW.
No emotions attached- they are taught to leave emotion at the door and argue facts, based on the law and legislation.
That's why lawyers can go in to bat for murderers, molesterers, etc even though they may not agree with the case and so on....
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If I am ever accoused of breaking the law, I wouldn't want a lawyer defending me if he didn't believe I was innocent.
In the society we have we have to have lawyers, and with more of them graduating every year from law schools, our litigious society will only get worse.
GM
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Unfortunately that's the nature of what they do.
Do you seriously beleive that the lawyers who defend some of the scum of the earth actually support their clients????
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No, I don't.
But most do, as an officer of the court they aren't supposed to lie to the judge or the jury. There are a good number of lawyers who are dis-barred every year for doing just that.
Innocent people do get accused of crimes they did not commit, that is why defense lawyers defend their clients.
I'm not a big fan of lawyers, but they are a necessary part of our society.
GM
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We're going way off topic now, but there's a difference between lieing to a court and arguing law and legislation.
I'm not sure how it works in the USA, but over here, defense lawyers are often appointed by the courts so they don't get a choice on who they defend, other than to say no.
I have a good friend who is a lawyer and now teaches law at a University (Has also written a few books on law- rivetting reading NOT!!!!) and we've had a few really good talsk about this exact topic- he says it's just one of those things. You disassociate with the crime and argue facts and law, regardless of what you believe.
To put it into our persepective- we still treat and extricate drunk drivers even though we don't like them, we loathe them and think they're scum- a lawyer is no different except they work in a court....
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Permalink Reply by Brian Dumser on
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That's awesome!
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Permalink Reply by Terry on
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Great reply Brian Dumser When you have people who go into this line of work, it is never about the money. Search any dept. worldwide and every firefighter will tell you it's a calling, or desire to help people. I know several career firefighters who just because they get thru with their shift, it doesn't mean that they are off duty. Firefighter's/First responders are never off duty. Vollies especiallly, along with careers are firefighter's 24-7-365. It's that desire to help people in peril that drive us to get up in the morning. Even citizens who have shown some great attempt to help someone receive some kind of recognition. I'm sure this guy wasn't standing on the shore thinking how much money his family would get. I'm pretty sure he didn't even think about dying. It was just his experience and training and desire to help that made him dive in that water. For that, his family should be compensated. KEEP SAFE BROTHER'S AND SISTER'S!!!
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Permalink Reply by Jeff Clark on
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i am glad they ruled in the faimlies fav. i have a friend that read this with me and he is a police officer he said that would be like an off duty cop not doing anything about a crime that is going on and just sitting there waiting on an on duty officer to so up. thats the way we both feel.he said he took an oath to up hold the law. just like a firefighter or medic has sworn to protect lives and property.
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