The Social Network & Community JUST for Firefighters
In the line of duty?
Update October 3, 2008:
"Ronald W. Thomas, the Wellsville volunteer firefighter who died trying to save two drowning fishermen at a trout derby last year, has been posthumously awarded the Carnegie Medal for his bravery, the Carnegie Hero Fund Commission announced Thursday.
"The medal comes just a couple of weeks after Thomas became the first recipient of New York State’s Volunteer of Valor award.
"Pittsburgh steelmaker and philanthropist Andrew Carnegie started the fund in 1904 to recognize men and women who risk their lives while saving or attempting to save the lives of others. "
http://www.buffalonews.com/cityregion/otherwny/story/453906.html
BELMONT, NY - Local volunteer firefighters are urging Allegany County lawmakers to pay death benefits to the family of fallen Wellsville firefighter Ron Thomas, who lost his life after he dove into the Genesee River to rescue someone else.
Mr. Thomas died on April 29, 2007, after he dove into the Genesee River to rescue someone who had fallen into the water during the Wellsville Trout Derby.
Shortly thereafter, state officials began investigating Mr. Thomas’s death, trying to determine whether or not he died in the line of duty. Had he been in the line of duty during his death, Mr. Thomas’ surviving family would be eligible for a death benefit package.
Now an administrative law judge in Rochester is determining if, in fact, Mr. Thomas’ family has benefits due to them. The decision is based around whether or not Mr. Thomas was responding to a call as a firefighter or acting on his own when he attempted the rescue.
(County Fire Coordinator) Gallman is arguing that in an emergency situation, a responsible firefighter may not necessarily wait for the tones that indicate an emergency situation. Mr. Thomas had been an eyewitness to several people falling into the water.
“There is a thin borderline between what is on duty and what is not, I grant that,” Mr. Gallman said. “In a case where they actually act, they should be on duty. You can’t wait for the tone if your watching the act in front of you.”
Mr. Thomas is survived by his wife, Susan; daughter, Katie; two sons, Scott and Ryan; his mother, Esther Thomas; his foster father, Theodore Bliven; and a niece and nephew.
He was a 35-year member of the Dyke Street Engine Company, where he was a past captain and an officer.
In May 2008 the court decided that FF Thomas did in fact die in the line of duty, and his family was awarded the death benefit package.
"Ronald W. Thomas, the Wellsville volunteer firefighter who died trying to save two drowning fishermen at a trout derby last year, has been posthumously awarded the Carnegie Medal for his bravery, the Carnegie Hero Fund Commission announced Thursday.
"The medal comes just a couple of weeks after Thomas became the first recipient of New York State’s Volunteer of Valor award.
"Pittsburgh steelmaker and philanthropist Andrew Carnegie started the fund in 1904 to recognize men and women who risk their lives while saving or attempting to save the lives of others. "
http://www.buffalonews.com/cityregion/otherwny/story/453906.html
BELMONT, NY - Local volunteer firefighters are urging Allegany County lawmakers to pay death benefits to the family of fallen Wellsville firefighter Ron Thomas, who lost his life after he dove into the Genesee River to rescue someone else.
Mr. Thomas died on April 29, 2007, after he dove into the Genesee River to rescue someone who had fallen into the water during the Wellsville Trout Derby.
Shortly thereafter, state officials began investigating Mr. Thomas’s death, trying to determine whether or not he died in the line of duty. Had he been in the line of duty during his death, Mr. Thomas’ surviving family would be eligible for a death benefit package.
Now an administrative law judge in Rochester is determining if, in fact, Mr. Thomas’ family has benefits due to them. The decision is based around whether or not Mr. Thomas was responding to a call as a firefighter or acting on his own when he attempted the rescue.
(County Fire Coordinator) Gallman is arguing that in an emergency situation, a responsible firefighter may not necessarily wait for the tones that indicate an emergency situation. Mr. Thomas had been an eyewitness to several people falling into the water.
“There is a thin borderline between what is on duty and what is not, I grant that,” Mr. Gallman said. “In a case where they actually act, they should be on duty. You can’t wait for the tone if your watching the act in front of you.”
Mr. Thomas is survived by his wife, Susan; daughter, Katie; two sons, Scott and Ryan; his mother, Esther Thomas; his foster father, Theodore Bliven; and a niece and nephew.
He was a 35-year member of the Dyke Street Engine Company, where he was a past captain and an officer.
In May 2008 the court decided that FF Thomas did in fact die in the line of duty, and his family was awarded the death benefit package.
Replies to This Discussion
-
Permalink Reply by Brian Dumser on
-
"The funny thing about Firemen is day or night, they're always Firemen" -Ronald (the arsonist), Backdraft.
I would think they would have to understand that as firefighters/first responders, we're technically always on duty. Someone mentioned earlier that you can't wait for the tones to drop when you're standing there watching the event unfold!
-
Permalink Reply by Clint M. Nelsen on
-
I have a hard time defining what "on duty" means. Was this department a volunteer or full-time dept? The only thing I mean by that is a volunteer's pager can go off any time, day or night, so they're always "on-duty" in my book. I certainly agree with the other comments that a firefighter has a "duty" to respond when they see something, whether they are on the clock or not.
-
Permalink Reply by Joe Stoltz on
-
He was a member of a volunteer fire department. I believe the actual incident took place outside his home district, but certainly within 5 or 10 miles of it.
According to the article a firefighter from another department within the same county succumbed in 1980 to a heart attack that was not fire- or duty-related at all, and his family was compensated.
Which one of us would NOT have done the same thing?
-
Permalink Reply by Wolfy Lang on
-
As any police officer in this country if they are EVER truly "off duty". All the answers I have ever gotten are, they are ALWAYS on duty.
As a FF/EMT, I carry my turnout gear and a jump bag with me every where I go. I am trained, certified, and WILLING to do and perform things the "general public" is not. I belong to a volunteer station, but more times than I care to remember, I have stopped to offer assistance or aid outside my PRIMARY response district. Alot of times its within my MUTUAL AID response area, but still, I am doing what I have been trained to do until the dispatched parties arrive, then I assist them.
If his family is denied compensation simply due to the fact that he "wasnt dispatched", then there is a serious issue in the system. For example, Cardiac Arrest call. Dispatchers can take up to 2 or 3 minutes to tone out a call, the person has already been down 1 to 5 minutes if witnessed, Response time to scene is 1 to 20 minutes, and you have 4 to 6 minutes to get oxygen flowing again. ANYONE who stands around and WAITS for the tones on something that presents as a NEED IT NOW life saving scenario, needs to be flogged, stood before a firing squad, sent to the gallows, then kicked out of what ever department they are in for life.
If someone needs help, and you can give it, GIVE IT... especially if you are trained to do so.
But these are just my opinions and not necessarily those of anyone else who cares.
He died saving someone as he was trained to do. Family gets the money... its the LEAST that can be done for them.
Wolfy
-
-
"ANYONE who stands around and WAITS for the tones on something that presents as a NEED IT NOW life saving scenario, needs to be flogged, stood before a firing squad, sent to the gallows, then kicked out of what ever department they are in for life."
Wolfy, you don't have to beat around the bush; tell us how you really feel about this! :o)
-
Permalink Reply by A.J. on
-
Duty to Act enough said that is more than enough for his family to receive benefits.
-
-
Duty to act is only applicable when the tones sound. When you are out of your district or in a Career Dept and are off duty then you do not have a Legal Duty to Act unless it is part of your departments SOP's.
As a Volunteer, its that grey area kind of thing if you are in your response district. Not sure how the courts would look at it ...
MORALLY is another story.... You are the one who has to live with Jimminey Cricket.....
Wolfy
-
-
Here is a link to the Opinion page of the local newspaper. There are some excellent opinions and follow-up comments here:
http://www.wellsvilledaily.com/opinions/x899760557
-
-
See the update above. Justice prevails, at least in this case.
It could be a landmark case defining when/where a volunteer firefighter is on duty.
-
Permalink Reply by Erin T. on
-
I don't understand. If a police officer were Technically "off duty" and saw a crime in progress of any sort , the normal expectation of the public would be to respond and take care of the problem.
What's the difference between that and having an off duty firefighter rescue a drowning person. I would have done the same damn thing and then challenged the judge to his face. That's right your'e not hearing things.
Sometimes the judicial system is the entity that oversteps IT'S bounds.
-
Permalink Reply by Gunny on
-
I truly think the people responsible for even questioning the issue if it was a LODD should be shot. The sad part is if it was one of their family members in need of help it would have gone through without a question of doubt. We train hard, so we are prepared for an emergency and because he responded and did what it was he was trained to do, but did not wait til the tones went off is totally crazy. Law makers and politicians need to get their heads examined and finally realize YOU CANNOT put a price and spare a dollar for what it is we do !!!!!
-
-
Well said Gunny.
© 2024 Created by Firefighter Nation WebChief.
Powered by
