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Another Scenario
You are at a working house fire and have men inside. You being a assistant chief watching the "C" side of the house you notice the floor start to sag about 7". What do you do? Lets say the house is 3 stories but you only see 2 from the front and when you go around back you find you have the 3. The coal stove has already went through the floor from what you thought was the first floor and fire was out the roof on the "C" side when the first unit arrived and you know the fire is pretty much knocked down.
A) Blow the air horns and get everyone out and finish from the outside.
B) Let everyone continue and let the interior Officer know that the second story floor in the rear is weak.
C) Blow the air horns and bring everyone out do a roll call and asses the situation and when deemed safe enough for a crew to be inside hand pick a crew you know can get the job done and send them back in.
Which and Why?
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Cody A. Belmont on
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I'm going to have to go with "A" for this one. If the house is already to the point where the physical structure is compromised it should become a defensive operation only. Why risk life for what will most likely be ruled a total loss. If you chose "B" or "C" what's to say that unknown to the oic that the rest of the structure is deteriorating and there is a greater risk of a total collapse. It's just not worth the lose of life that may occur. Protect your exposures and be greatfull that you return to station with the same number of crew members you responded with. EVERYONE GOES HOME!!!
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Permalink Reply by Ben Waller on
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I question why anyone would even consider keeping firefighters in a structure that has already had a localized collapse and that is showing signs of a pending, much more serious collapse. I also question why anyone would consider going back into such a structure, particularly with the fire incompletely extinguished.
Remember, valuing life over property includes valuing firefighter's lives over property.
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Permalink Reply by Moose on
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Option "A" without hesitation. Signs of structural failure and no life hazard other than firefighters, they are coming out and staying out.
Good size-up should prevent the confusion of how many floors from ever happening, any good officer will do the 360 degree walk around and communicate the information to the first in companies and officers so there is no confusion. If there was no 360 performed than the assistant chief in charge of the side "C" area should communicate that point as soon as possible to the IC and all interior crews.
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Permalink Reply by Derek J Sinesi on
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I like option A myself. I have seen option c a couple of time's wasn't to happy about it.
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Permalink Reply by Sarah Tinsley MacKenzie on
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(A) if the firemen who entered have done a search of the building to make sure there are no occupants they should do an external attack because clearly the building is too far damaged and is not going to be salvagable, (excuse my spelling) its obviously at the stage where it needs to be put under control and needs surroundings protected
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Permalink Reply by Steve on
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I would go with A.
But, I would also make an announcement to my interior team of my observations so they avoid the weak area above and below during evacuation.
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We had a lucky night. He left the bar early. LOL
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Permalink Reply by Joseph E Creegan on
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for me it a full pull out .why . whats more a life or a house that can be replaced. thats my view from asst chief and a firefighter .
my new thing is floor joist 2x 8 or prefab floor joist ?? whats your input please
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Permalink Reply by Bob Callahan on
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So are you the ...
A) Incident Commander
B) Safety Officer
C) Sector Officer
It makes a difference.
If I was the IC, I would order an immediatte evacuation.
If I was the Safety Officer, I would radio the IC or if close to the IC would face to face and recommend an immediatte evacuation.
If I was a sector officer, i would advise him of what I was observing and request a face-to-face to recommend an immediatte evacuation.
Once everryone is out the command staff would have a discussion reagrding the structure's stability and how we are going to proceed.
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Permalink Reply by capcityff on
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I agree. Pencil pushers on the fire ground just get in the way. They can go back and sit at their cozy little desk at HQ.
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I did not make this call. But was able to go to this structure a couple of weeks ago and can say i most likely would have call off a interior attack has soon as i made it around to the back of the house. I was told that the whole back of the house was full of flames from the bottom floor out the roof by the time the first truck arrived. So therefore i would have to presume that the floors where already burnt threw. I am still unclear if the chief was on the scene first or not.
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