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Traffic Safety Cones... Do we all carry and use these?
Traffic Safety Cones - Three Basic Questions...
- Do you carry traffic safety cones on your rig?
- If so, where do you store them?
- Do you have a written or graphic protocol for usage?
There are some givens, such as parking your engine diagonally, allowing both lane blockage and safe egress for firefighters exiting the emergency apparatus on the highway.
Some outstanding diagrams that are easy to read and use include the following examples:
North Carolina DOT has developed a convenient Emergency Responder Reference Card 30 which provides a quick reference to how and where emergency vehicles should be parked at the scene. Tools such as these are extremely helpful as a reminder especially for new first responders or when there is confusion in the field.
North Carolina DOT Emergency Responder Highway & Interstate Saf...
Unfortunately, even if you have cones out, traffic flares, lights, the works, even professional bus drivers end up not paying attention and hitting parked emergency vehicles actively involved with extinguishing a vehicle fire. The NTSB that investigated this fatality incident provided this graphic showing the departments use of safety cones, apparatus placement and specifics about the incident.
The conclusion for the after accident report in regard to the fire department was the following:
Department SOPs included highway response procedures; however, a more clearly defined description of procedures for responding to highway incidents would be beneficial to enhance the safety of all emergency responders working at the incident scene.
I personally have been close to getting hit on highway responses during my career understanding that if I did get hit, legally, I was the one causing the obstruction or hazard, and typically, even though I would be dead, the citizen would get away with killing someone. I choose to not be a statistic and recommend even with orange safety cones to have situational awareness to make sure you come home. Watch out for one another because the general public sure won't. How often do you note folks driving by an accident scene and not moving over a lane? I rest my case.
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Mike Schlags (Captain Busy) Retd on
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Bring awareness that folks just don't pay attention, even with cones is a good goal for this thread... The collision damage noted below and reference above is from the impact of the bus striking the firefighter, pinning the firefighter between the passing bus and stationary fire engine. Not pretty...
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Permalink Reply by Ron Briggs on
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I have been spotting for years and have only had 2 close calls while doing it. Lessons learned: keep closer tabs to the sky when in 2 of the counties I drive in during storm season, when the weather gets too unsafe - leave. 2 close calls in over 6 years is not bad considering some of the storm seasons in my area get nasty.
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Permalink Reply by Oldman on
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We carry 5 cones on each apparatus, which we use mainly for daytime landing zones. We do sometimes use them on the roadway alongside an apparatus. At the speeds we encounter on the roads in my area, to actually set up a "safe" work area, we would need to pull a trailer to carry enough.
That is one issue I notice not only with your NTSB example, but also in real life. In the NTSB picture, (assuming it is close to scale), the taperd approach to the fire area was started way too close. Presuming this is a highway, and at highway speeds, the taper would need to start no closer than 500 feet back, and would require the use of a minimum of 20 cones. Then the cones would continue down the lane past the scene. This could easily increase the total number of cones needed to 50 or 60. There is a formula used by the highway department here, and I'm sure in other states, to determine distances and numbers of cones needed for a particular work area, and even then, there are still people getting killed because of driver inattention.
Cones, and safety vests can help us stay safer, but the best way is always expect stupidity. Never turn your back to the traffic, and use spotters as an early stupidity detector.
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Permalink Reply by Jack/dt on
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Capt. Bzy (body),
Cones, like anything else certainly have their place. Typically, for us we swoop in, mitigate and are off like a prom dress. For large or involved incidents, cones will be placed, usually PW brings them out to us.
Safety cones are used to both warn and direct oncoming traffic. I don't believe that safety cones and the issue of emergency warning lights/motorist disorientation can be discussed separately.
The most (but not always) effective method to protect workers on the road is to follow how State and highway construction crews set up: Signs a mile or more from the work site warning of lane closures; trucks with impact absorbers with flashing message signs/arrows and then; cone placement (and additional vehicles) still well in advance of the work scene. Even THEN workers have close calls or worse. Fire departments don't have the option of a set date and time and so have to deal with roadway incidents without advance notice.
On our 'local' roads, I've seen where, with the engine blocking diagonal, a few flares and cones put out and a motorist who, instead of going left around the scene actually tried to pass the incident on the right, on the shoulder, because there was a store entrance they wanted to get into.
I've been on the road where, using cones, a lane was set up to direct traffic around the scene, with a row of cones set up creating a 'lane' for that traffic so opposing traffic could continue ('isolated') in their own lane. A car, approaching the coned lane slowed to a stop (confused?) and so the vehicle behind them passed the stopped car and continued on in the oncoming traffic lane. Fortunately one of our FF's caught it and was able to quickly stop the vehicle, the PD dealt with that driver.
My point is that, no matter the precautions taken, because we are a hit and run operation on the roads we lack the setup time that highway crews have available to them. With much less advanced (distant) incident warning/lane closure notifications, multiple vehicles and an abundance of warning lights (and let's face it, people HAVE to slow/stop and gawk at an MVA/vehicle fire whereas at a construction site, they zip by uninterested), a fire department road scene is one massive charlie foxtrot.
Don't get me wrong, I'm all for doing whatever we can do to provide for our safety onscene but cones are not a panacea and can create a false sense of security. Roadway safety HAS to consider disorientated motorist as a result of emergency lights. Cones only show traffic where they can go, you first have to get them focused on and into that traffic lane.
You can't talk about traffic cones without talking about motorist disorientation. They are two sides of the same coin.
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Permalink Reply by Greenman on
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We carry three traffic cones and we store them with the hydraulic cutters and spreaders in the Rescue Truck, and with the Red Line in our Engines.
We set them out when we're working a scene to create a "work space" by placing them a few feet from the apparatus so drivers know where their lane limit is. This is especially true on an on ramp or off ramp, or where traffic has been "choked down" to a single lane to bypass the accident scene.
Nothing substitutes for spotters, using apparatus for blocking and a high degree of situational awareness at all times on scene, but without the cones set out, it's easier for a rubber necking motorist to get too close to the apparatus without realize how close they are.
Greenman
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I have 3 photos from a car fire scene on a busy road from last year showing cone use at the scene if anyone would like me to post them.
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Permalink Reply by Wade Seely on
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We carry cones, flags, and traffic wands on every apparatus, and in all command vehicles. the numbers vary on the apparatus do to storage limitations and uses. We do use them anytime there is a need to such as MVAs, or other calls where we need to divert traffic, or even mark a trip or other hazard.
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Permalink Reply by lutan1 on
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Mike, I think the key thing members need to remember is that traffic cones, e-flares, signs, etc are only aids and only assist.
The only true safe method is a fixed, immovable barrier which is total non starter for us in our circumstances.
In the absence of true seperation of vehicles and pedestrians, members must have massive loads of situational awareness of what's going on around them. As your photos clearly show, traffic cones won't stop a 10 tonne bus or truck....
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Permalink Reply by John S-B on
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We have them on the trucks, but rarely use them except for long incidents or planned training. I think (like reflective vests) they give a false sense of security. If some idiot can't see the big truck with all the lights and yellow and red stripey things on the back, how they gonna see a friggin' cone?? I generally rely on shutting down the whole road or using the apparatus as a safety zone. Just like the old west, circle the wagons and protect yourself. Now maybe if they made those cones out of solid concrete I'd put a little more faith in them.
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The point is John, the cones give advance warning when placed correctly.
It's well researched that people get blinded or transfixed with all the pretty lights and shiny things.
Anything that gives advance warning (visial) and audio (the sound of them being struck, run over and dragged down the road) is in my opinion, a great thing.
Cones are not designed to physically seperate the pedestrian from the vehicle- as you rightly pointed out, until they're made of concrete, they ain't gonna do that!
The sound of the cone under the car is better than the screams of a FF being dragged underneath....
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With a 3 man engine, just exactly when do we have the time to set out cones? There's just too many idiots out there for me to put any faith in cones. Just about every LODD and accident involving parked apparatus I've seen recently wouldn't have been prevented by cones. We get cops (they have guns) or we shut down the road. Problem solved.
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When do you NOT have time to protect yourselves should be the question?
My safety first, victims second.
You're right in that they won't offer full protection, but they're advanced warning and can assist with scene protection. If they're a waste of time, why do so many construction companies, other agencies, etc use them so prominently?
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