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Its 2011, why is this still happening?
We've seen officers without gear, Civilians humping hose...but someone on the roof? Its 2011, why is this still happening? Maybe I'm not smart enough to see the overall picture.
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Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Jack/dt on
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Patti;
"I do not think it is stupid for a firefighter to say they do not like going on roofs."
Would that same sentiment hold true for one that does not like going into burning buildings?
"...my Captain will not send ANY of us on a roof if a house is burning."
There are times when vertical ventilation needs to be done. If your captain won't do/allow vertical ventilation then your department should re-think its missions statement, to something along the lines of : Life safety-ish and property preservation-ish.
"Simply because the homes are old and he wants us all to go home SAFELY."
So your captain will allow old homes to burn but not new ones? Or is he equally afraid of new roofs as well?
Sorry Pattie but I think your captain is wrong. There's nothing wrong with being cautious but to make a blanket statement that nobody goes on a roof is absurd. Presuming that most of your "old" houses are one story, how does he plan on ventilating if the structure is at or near flashover? How does he plan on getting the heat, smoke and gases out of the structure to make it easier for the hose line to advance? Not to mention your primary search crew? Or is his plan to shoot water into the building from outside and save the foundation?
"I think it is a SMART firefighter who can say they don't like something and yet still kick ass and get the job done. This really is just a self-serving statement, justifying why *fiire* departments have "interior" and "exterior" crews. The job of firefighter is not (and should not be) one of chinese menu opitions, where each *firefighter* gets to decide what he or she will or will not do. If you really want to "kick ass" then you should be willing and able to do whatever is needed. Anything less is really not "kick ass" so much as it is lame ass.
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Permalink Reply by Patti Walz on
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The homes in my district are for the most part old farm houses, some are falling down and quite a few are not very well maintained. By the time a crew is gathered and responding to a fire it is to late to do vertical vent. He knows the homes and he knows the area. He knows what is safe and what is not. Personally I have only seen one home built and because of the rural area he had a sprinkler system built into his home.
Just because you do not like to do something does not mean you can not do your job well. I hate purchasing but I do it and I do it well (even better that the regular purchasing agent). Just because a person hates to do somethig does not mean they are not willing to do it or they are not good at doing it.
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To "...hate purchasing..." is significantly different (and far less relevant) than not wanting to go up on a roof. But more significantly even though you "hate" purchasing I strongly suspect that refusing to do it could get you fired. Being fired for refusing to do something in your fire department doesn't seem to be an issue.
Regardless of the state of repair of the homes in your area the more telling nature is that of your response time, which makes much more sense for not going up on a roof. So really what you're implying is that you arrive in time to wet down the ashes?
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Pretty much. I live right across from my station so I can get there pretty quickly others however are coming down the mountain or from out lying farms. Sometimes it can take 5 minutes for them to get to the station. Which means depending on where the fire is, road conditions, etc it can take 10-45 minutes to get to a scene. If one rig is out of service then we have to wait for a rig to arrive from a neighboring district. Right now in my station we only have the support rig and the tender as our engine is out of service for maint. For medically calls it is easy for use to respond since we have everything in our support rig, fires though require at least two people to leave the station.
No if I refused to do purchasing I would not be fired. I would be frowned upon for not being a team player, but I would not be fired. Purchasing is not my main role with my day job. My boss knows that I hate purchasing, but he also knows that if asked I will jump in do the job 110% and then breathe a sigh of relief when it is over. He knows that he can depend on me to do whatever role is needed to ensure the continuation of production.
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Permalink Reply by John Crabbe on
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I do not think it is stupid for a firefighter to say they do not like going on roofs. I don't like roofs and quite frankly I don't know of anyone in my district that does like to go on roofs............Just because you do not like to do something does not mean you can not do your job well. Just because a person hates to do somethig does not mean they are not willing to do it or they are not good at doing it.
So is it safe to thus believe that you would go to the roof if ordered to?
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I would go on a roof ordered or not. It is part of the job to be able to perform these tasks safely and when needed.
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Permalink Reply by capcityff on
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"I think it is a SMART firefighter who can say they don't like something and yet still kick ass and get the job done. This really is just a self-serving statement, justifying why *fiire* departments have "interior" and "exterior" crews. The job of firefighter is not (and should not be) one of chinese menu opitions, where each *firefighter* gets to decide what he or she will or will not do. If you really want to "kick ass" then you should be willing and able to do whatever is needed. Anything less is really not "kick ass" so much as it is lame ass.
Jack - Couldn't have said it any better. This whole "interior" and "exterior" role thing confuses me. You're either a fireman or you're not. If I said that I don't want to go on the roof, I'd be told to leave the fire scene. After returning back to the house I'd probably be fired. This job isn't for everyone. Those that can't do it, but choose to anyway are really going to hurt some people.
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Permalink Reply by Bradley Webb on
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I'm not defending anyone in the video, but I do think there is a whole lot more to this than just 14 seconds worth of video can show.
All I can say is that one guy on a hoseline is bad but not totally out of realm of reality. It happens, always better to have two guys but I can understand a small rural department only having one. Do I like it? No.
As for the guy on the roof without PPE, I have no idea. It surprises me and the only defense I can think of is if I'm on the outside surveying the scene cause I have no gear for some unknown reason and no radio (lets assume they don't have radios, cause apparantly they only have one set of gear), if I have a guy inside and the house is looking like that I might be wanting to get him off the roof. I'm not going to yell at him for an hour knowing good and well that he can't hear me the only two things I can do is tug on the hoseline, or go up there and get him out (only two options if blasting the airhorn a thousand times doesn't work). If I pull on the hoseline too hard it might jerk out of his hands and he would have no escape route or protection if the fire got to him. Thus my decision although as crazy as it seems would be to go up there and get him. That's all I can say about that. I'll do just about anything to get my guys out if they're in trouble.
As for the chainsaw guy, can't think of a thing, unless he's never started a chainsaw or he's injured and having to start it with his off-hand.
Like I said I'm not defending although I said defense in there. I would not be proud of being on a department like this or even knowing someone on it. All I'm trying to do is figure out why they were working like this.
Oh and for a few more little things. It's not uncommon to have a civilian help out at a fire scene. Do I like it? No, but sometimes it does help. It's not doing anything here of course. Once had a neighbor cut a hole in the side of a victims bedroom to try and get her out, but once he did cut the hole he couldn't get in to help her (she was handicapped). When one of my guys got to her they found the hole in the wall and once they got her they remembered the hole and went out the hole instead of finding the door again. In that instance it helped, but still again not in the video. Again before I get torn apart by a couple of sharpshooters, I do not endorse civilian assistance on a fire scene, but if it helps I am not against it as long as it is within reason.
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I don't think one guy on a hose line is that bad at all. I'm on a very well staffed career department and one guy should be able to handle the line by himself here. The layout man is humping hose behind and the officer is sometimes ahead looking for the fire.
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I agree with capcity here too. While it is frowed upon from the higher ups, it does happen. Just about every surround and drown we've ever had, we've had several lines with only one guy on them. I can think of one fire where we had I think 6 lines stretched. Three of those six only had one guy on them. It was already ashes when we got there btw.
Agreeing with capcity again, even in well staffed departments, lines are manned really only by one guy. The nozzle guy controls the hose itself. The backup man is manuevering the hoseline and getting it to where it needs to go. The officer is checking everything else in the room. That's three people but technically it's only one guy controlling the hose itself.
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Permalink Reply by Norm Tindell on
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I was so intrigued by the video clip I had to replay it a dozen times. Jeez...It's like watching Keystone Cops. Like many others I have no idea why these guys are so ill-equipped, but they sure didn't make themselves look very effective in the process. The guy on the roof without gear seems to have a bad case of tunnel vision. At least I hope no one got hurt --- or cut to pieces.
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Permalink Reply by George A. Laiacona III on
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We might be volunteers, but you will NOT see anything like that in my district. You don't have to be paid to be professional, and safe.
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