Fire Department Motorcycles - A Cost Effective Option?

Maybe the time has come for fire departments to do more than just consider using motorcycles for emergency response. This has been successfully done in europe for years and now the UK is giving it a try. Maybe it's time for us to do the same...

Merseyside Fire & Rescue Service is getting ready to trial a couple of firefighting motorcycle response units. (all photos by Tony Thomas).

Although motorcycles are already being used by Fire Departments throughout the world, this is the first time such a solution has been rolled out in the United Kingdom.

The 6-month trial will test two BMW RT1200 police-spec bikes that have been kitted out with two 25 liter water tanks and a 30 meter hose reel.

TCSS,
CBz

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Permalink Reply by Mike Schlags (Captain Busy) Retd on January 20, 2011 at 8:31am
life saving EMS measures require rapid intervention which means getting someone on scene asap. use of a motorcycle, while generally only employed by law enforcement could actually be a cost savings in regard to incidents where no resources are needed. less miles travelled, less fuel and maintenance costs mean that there is more money to do things like pay salaries and benefits. if we, the fire service is going to survive the current fiscal nightmare we are all living in, then we have to work smarter and be open minded... no one wants to end up like the Camden firefighters... just sayin'
Permalink Reply by Norm Tindell on January 20, 2011 at 8:32am
Plus our population is not "motorcycle friendly." Drivers sometimes don't see them. Sometimes they do and would rather they not be on the road. Different culture entirely.
Permalink Reply by Greenman on January 20, 2011 at 8:58am
I think there are a couple of reasons why this won't catch on in very many cities in the U.S.

First, there is the liability issue. America has a litigious society and everyone is afraid of getting sued by a former employee who got hurt and doesn't think Workman's Comp paid enough. that's part of the same reason we don't use Fireman's poles in firehouses anymore, too much potential for litigation.

Second, In the Fire Service we have a "hundred of tradition unimpeded by progress." Basically too many old Chiefs (I don't mean to offend, but everyone knows who "old Chiefs" are) who simply don't want to try anything new in the fire Service and still have to be dragged kicking and screaming into the Twentieth Century, let alone the Twenty-First Century. Then there are city councils who won't permit any capital investment in "new ideas" until there is 20+ years of empirical data that the "new" idea will save at least a double-digit percentage in costs -- if you can find used equipment that can be refurbished on the cheap. Some Councils would still be buying Army Surplus Deuce-and-a-halfs if they could.

There are progressive cities out there, and they are the ones who will make sit possible for other localities to adopt this new technology around the turn of the next century.

Greenman
Permalink Reply by Greenman on January 20, 2011 at 9:03am
Norm,

You've got that right. Motorcycles are much more commonly used for business and government throughout the rest of the world than they are in the U.S. In Europe and Asia it is very common to see motorcycles used for everything from Fire bikes to Pizza Delivery vehicles, but in the U.S. most insurance companies won't insure motorcycles used as delivery vehicles.

In the U.S. motorcycles have too much of an "outlaw" image to be accepted readily in any role other than for "bikers" and "Cops."

Greenman
Permalink Reply by ashfire on January 20, 2011 at 11:51am
Usually if some big city like New York tries a new idea it spreads to other areas. Packing hose on your engine. Someone comes up with a better way for it to be done so it can be used when you arrival at a fire and when you put it back on.
A new tool is made by someone in the fire service or something added to a tool to make it better.
Yeah money is the other problem. How much is it going to cost to buy that item and spread it to the rest of the dept.
Or why buy a Cadillac when you can buy a Chevy when it comes to fire apparatus. You feel that something is going to last longer than another.
I got a vol chief that been around for years and doesn't use a computer. Cell phones and pagers he will use. I wait to see how he will get use to the new radio system that's coming. We are finally moving to use a trunk system and everyone will be on it.
Permalink Reply by ashfire on January 20, 2011 at 12:02pm
I would contact the German page. They can provide any info you needed and they can send you a DVD and printed material.
Permalink Reply by Nenad on January 20, 2011 at 4:24pm
Permalink Reply by Nenad on January 20, 2011 at 6:03pm
Permalink Reply by Alan McGuigan on January 21, 2011 at 8:57am
Innovation is great thanks to those who have had the insight, open minds and willingness to try new ideas. Their willingness to try new things have moved the fire service forward, sure not ever idea has worked but we would never know unless someone was and is willing to try.
My thoughts regarding the idea of motorcycles responding to fires I think has both limitations and advantages.
• For first responders responding to medical or MVCs the speed and ability to move through heavy traffic would make the motorcycle an awesome first response unit especially in areas with heavy traffic such as down town New York or rush hours on freeways with stopped traffic. Giving those in need of medical assistance sooner until an ambulance or other units are able to get on scene
• In Europe I can see the unit with the 50 liters (13.2 us gallons) might have some impact especially if they add foam to the water which makes the water about five times more effective so it’s like they have 250 litters (66 us gallons) of water, compressed air foam would even better multiply the water effectiveness by 25 times so it would be like having 1250 litters of water (330 us gallon). Overall not a lot of water however one must consider in Europe the cars are much smaller as well they have a lot more motorcycle traffic so maybe so an initial attack it could be pretty effective again especially in high traffic areas where it is hard to get trucks down roads easily
I don’t think that these motorcycles would be a replacement but would complement the response getting initial and immediate aid to those in need a little sooner. Not sure it would save any money but it might save a few more lives and that’s what it’s all about. I applaud those willing to step outside the “box we all work in “and try new things it’s what moves us forward. Imagine if we didn’t have departments willing to try new things we would still be using leather buckets to put fires out!
Permalink Reply by Greenman on January 21, 2011 at 10:30am
Even in Europe they're not a replacement for Full-size Fire Engines, but supplement them for smaller fires and for quick initial response. also, while many cars in Europe are smaller than many we have here, they burn just a hot and just as intensely as the ones we have here; don't forget many of the cars we driv einthe states are European cars as well: Volvo, Audi, BMW, Saab, VW, etc... even many of our American brands are sold in Europe, sometimes under different names, but essentially the same car, Fords are Opals in Europe for example. Not all cars in Europe are tiny cars, just like not all cars in the U.S. are massive SUVs.

As for saving money...if you don't have to roll out the big gas guzzlers for every call, but can use smaller vehicles like motorcycles and squads for things like minor MVAs and EMS calls, then you save money that way. Unfortunately the savings would accrue over time and would not be a immediate return, so many City Councils and Fire Departments would not even try a new approach.

Greenman
Permalink Reply by joemac on January 21, 2011 at 3:49pm
Not to pick nits, but Opel is a subsidiary of General Motors, not Ford.
Permalink Reply by John Crabbe on January 21, 2011 at 4:16pm
less miles travelled, less fuel and maintenance costs mean that there is more money to do things like pay salaries and benefits. if we, the fire service is going to survive the current fiscal nightmare we are all living in, then we have to work smarter and be open minded... no one wants to end up like the Camden firefighters

Depends on the proposal and it depends upon the actual implementation. As I mentioned before, I support and like the idea of EMS motorcycles, even those being more applicable and practical than a fire motorcycle, the context has to be considered. There will still be cost for the bikes, cost for the training, costs for the PPE, and so forth. Now such a bike option may work fine in sunny FL, in the SW or in Cali.....not too practical in places where it snows. Then also consider in regards to EMS, chances are you will be transporting anyway, so you will still have an ambulance come in for transport.

Working smarter and being open minded are a small aspect to the real fiscal mess. There is much more to be done there and motocycles, etc are not going to bring about the change. Instead it is going to take people to stand up to the lies and baseless attacks perpetuated by so many....not motorcycles.

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