Fire Department Motorcycles - A Cost Effective Option?

Maybe the time has come for fire departments to do more than just consider using motorcycles for emergency response. This has been successfully done in europe for years and now the UK is giving it a try. Maybe it's time for us to do the same...

Merseyside Fire & Rescue Service is getting ready to trial a couple of firefighting motorcycle response units. (all photos by Tony Thomas).

Although motorcycles are already being used by Fire Departments throughout the world, this is the first time such a solution has been rolled out in the United Kingdom.

The 6-month trial will test two BMW RT1200 police-spec bikes that have been kitted out with two 25 liter water tanks and a 30 meter hose reel.

TCSS,

CBz

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Permalink Reply by Vic Silverfish on January 18, 2011 at 6:26pm

By that same note, if you think working in a metropolitan area with a rapid backup, good water supply and tons of training and experience is in the same league as a rural department with weak funding, limited training opportunities and only a couple hundred calls/year of experience, you're crazy!

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Permalink Reply by Vic Silverfish on January 18, 2011 at 6:48pm

A three-wheeled vehicle is inherently unsafe and wants to flip over. Even a well designed one, the physics are against you. A hard turn puts weight off to the side, riding it up on one wheel or flipping it. A four wheel vehicle puts weight on the inside wheels, a motorcycle can lean. A trike can do neither of those things and is an invitation to disaster for anything other than road cruising, especially if you plan to load it up with a ton of fire gear.

Here's a bit of a piss take, but note the low speeds he's travelling to flip this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QQh56geU0X8

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Permalink Reply by Vic Silverfish on January 18, 2011 at 7:16pm

Hey Jack, I don't think your numbers are quite as bad. check this table out:

http://www.nfpa.org/assets/images///journal/ND07/injury_table3_big.gif

note there are ~ 15,000 emergency vehicle MVAs/year, and this number is increasing. There are ~1000 POV MVAs/year and this number is holding steady, if not decreasing.

I can't find a breakdown of Volly/paid for EV MVAs, but it's probably safe to say most if not all POV wrecks are volly. Your stats put about 3/4 of MVA fatalities on volunteers, but that's about right because volunteers are ~ 75% of the firefighters in the US. In fact, I would think it should be higher because only volunteers engage in the "risky" behaviour of driving POVs.

It's an interesting question. There are more volunteers, so there should be more volunteer injurys/LODDs...but in call volume, I'd bet the career side is a lot larger, so they should have larger numbers.

Regardless, I think motorcycles for firefighting are impractical, but a huge value for EMS.

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Permalink Reply by Vic Silverfish on January 18, 2011 at 7:28pm

hey look at this:

http://www.nfpa.org/assets/images///journal/ND07/injury_table4_big.gif

the rate of injuries, both in injuries/call, and injuries/100 firefighters are both higher in high population areas (which are predominantly career) than in low population areas (which are more volunteer).

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Permalink Reply by joemac on January 18, 2011 at 9:19pm

Once again, Europe and other parts will accept and improve upon, and adapt and reap, while the US of A shuns.
To wit:

Compact cars
Radial tires
Disk brakes
Amber turn indicators/marker lights
Halogen headlights

These are just a few of the things that took years, even decades, to catch on in the states.

These bikes could have multi-use capability, even in semi-rural areas.
Fitted with a few tools, even possibly on a small well-engineered trailer, could revolutionize things.

A thorough video size-up, in real time, could be delivered to officers from scouts who zipped to the scene from a remote location, such as annexes that could be set up throughout an area.
Incoming apparatus would be staged based on more knowledge. Decision-making would be enhanced with key information that usually isn't available until arrival.

Initial search could be accomplished in certain cases, infra-red TICs could be employed, the scene secured, forcible entry could be carried out, patients could be dealt with, nearby hydrants could be prepped, traffic re-routed, etc.
The uses are really limited to how many things the two first responders are trained and equipped to do.
Think about false alarms, and how many of them sap so much manpower (and womanpower).

Rather than blowing off the idea because of all the things it can't do, think of what it can provide. As was mentioned, armed with IFEX with SCBA, it's possible to knock down a carbecue.
Then again, IFEX probably won't catch on for another ten years.

How 'bout a modified version of this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dJfSS0ZXYdo&NR=1&feature=fvwp

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Permalink Reply by Jack/dt on January 18, 2011 at 9:20pm

Vic,

I'm betting the difference is because ANY incident involving an apparatus is included, paid or vollie and any time a civilian even bumps a BRT, it's in those numbers.

On the other hand, the numbers for POV's involved are (assuredly) exclusively those of volunteers. I've never heard of a paid guy driving around in his own vehicle while on duty/responding to a call.

See my link, the number of MVA related deaths included ALL deaths, including air craft. The point of those numbers was that only vollies die in POV's and more often, while responding/returning in apparatus as well.

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Permalink Reply by Jack/dt on January 18, 2011 at 9:23pm

Not surprising, in high(er) population areas the FD is going to be paid and will be actively engaged in many more fires and more aggressively involved in them. In rural departments the number of calls drop off rather quickly and I suspect that, outside of the POV returning/responding deaths, the number of injuries are lower as a result of the fewer fires and the ability to stay safely in the yard, hosing down the foundation.

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Permalink Reply by Vic Silverfish on January 18, 2011 at 11:17pm

Jack, note the Per Firefighter and the Per fire stats. These should normalise for call volume!

I'd like to see a normalisation for training level. Rural departments just don't have the budget that urban ones have.