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Do you add AR-AFFF to your engines water extinguishers?
So you respond to a MVA that has a small fuel spill that ignites right in front of you. No worry, you have a charged hose line on the ready and you have your firefighter extinguish the fire using the hose line. Problem is that the fire isn't going out... In fact, the fire is actually floating on top of the water! Is this possible?
With the addition of ethanol in our fuel, and we are talking 85% ethanol and 15% gasoline, you better have a plan B to deal with this type of event that I predict will become more and more prevalent as ethanol fuels become more commonplace.
Why ethanol fuels? Environmental testing over the years revealed that fuels containing MTBE (methyl tertiary butyl ether) actually enable the petrochemicals to penetrate deeper into the soil, sometimes reaching underground water source called aquifers.
Other problems with what we know as gasoline includes emission issues that go away when using ethanol based fuels. The byproducts are non-hazardous when using alcohol based fuels which makes ethanol fuel seem like the cats meow for everyone... but us.
Traditional firefighting techniques and extinguishing agents WILL NOT WORK on ethanol based fires. Alcohol floats on water, which means the more water you apply, the better the chances of making a static incident go dynamic. Ask Baltimore FD about the tanker fire on an overpass where water and AFFF were used to attempt to extinguish the fire. The tanker overflowed, with the flaming product (ethanol) spilling over the overpass to the street below, igniting car after car as the water carried burning ethanol moved downhill.
Now consider a smaller incident involving a MVA (motor vehicle accident) with a small fuel spill. Suddenly, "POOF!" a small fire starts. Is it ethanol? If it is, there is a chance that unless you use a dry chem or have AR-AFFF (alcohol resistive aqueous film forming foam) then you might have a problem...
My suggestion and overhead question to those reading this post is to think outside of the box with me and be proactive (not the acne medicine). Would it hurt to use AR-AFFF proportioned for a water can extinguisher, typically carried on our engines for the just in case scenario that I described above involving a small fuel spill that can go critical without the appropriate extinguishing agents...
Can you imagine not being able to put this fire out?
"Failure to prepare is preparing for failure... Be prepared..."
CBz
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Mike Schlags (Captain Busy) Retd on
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I was hoping someone would bring this up. Have you switched to AR-AFFF or do you also carry AFFF?
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and have you found that more AR-AFFF foam is needed compared to the traditional AFFF?
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Permalink Reply by Jason Brooks on
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We only use the ARC foam. It is more versatile. A lot of departments will add a couple of ounces to their PWC's on the trucks. Many more, have foam tanks on the trucks as well. If a car fire wants to keep burning, what are we saving? Unless it is a life safety issue or an exposure hazard, there is still nothing to save at a car fire. Just make the old college try and all fires go out eventually.
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We only use the ARC foam. It is more versatile. A lot of departments will add a couple of ounces to their PWC's on the trucks.
I am assuming tha PWC's refers to portable water cans?
How did you arrive at the 1-2 ounces of AR-AFFF to the water extinguisher?
QUESTION: Does anyone else:
1. Use AR-AFFF in their water extinguishers?
2. Do you subscribe to the 1-2 ounces of concentrate for a water can extinquisher?
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Permalink Reply by Trainer on
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Interesting idea....does it foam when it comes out the hose? What problems arise of having it sit for say a month or 2?
With 2 ethanol plants within 20 miles of us we carry ar in our 30gal in-truck tank so we are covered for that pesky car fire.
Couple of tidbits on grain based fuel, first off don't ever ever ever(get my point) run bio-fuel in your rig, I just spent 5 grand cleaning the fuel system on my semi, the problem occurs when it sits for an extended period of time a nasty little algae grows. Second is with ethanol in general, this industry is heavily subsidized and gov top brass is leaning towards different alternatives. The problem is if you take everything we grow to produce ethanol it only adds up to 15% of consumption, and for those of us in the corn belt, we know thats not going to happen, but it is good for the price per bushel.
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Permalink Reply by John Dobson on
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We carry F-500 its expensive but you don't have to guess what your puting out.
Class B Applications
Non-Polar Solvents:
•Gasoline
•Diesel Fuel
•Jet A
•JP4 / JP5 / JP8
•Crude Oils
Polar Solvents:
•Isopropyl Alcohol
•Methanol
•Methyl Ethyl Ketone (MEK)
•Methyl Tertiary Butyl Ether (MTBE)
Class A Applications:
•Wood
•Paper
•Cotton
•Hay / Straw / Grain
•Coal
•Coconut
•Fiberglass
•Rubber Tires
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Permalink Reply by CHRIS PUYLARA on
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YES MIKE AS A MATTER OF FACT I DO ADD IT TO OUR WATER CANS....AND IF IM NOT THE ONE THAT RECHARGES THE CAN AFTER THE CALL....I TELL THEM TO ADD (OR I ADD) TO IT.....IT DOES MAKE A DIFFERENCE.......EVEN ON VERY SMALL GRASS/BRUSH FIRES...BUT THEN AGAIN I LIKE TO THINK PROGRESSIVELY AND PROACTIVELY...TCSS...LT.CHRIS
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HEY TRAINER...READ YOUR POST OF 10-31......YES YOU CAN MAKE IT FOAM UP............A LITTLE FINGER ACTION WORKS PRETYY GOOD....I LIKE TO SHAKE THE HOSE TOO...(DONT GO THERE....LAFFIN).....IT AGITATES IT A LITTLE MORE TOO
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Permalink Reply by Steve Thompson on
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Be careful of the compatability of firefighting foams and the water extinguisher canister. NFPA put an alert out a few years back regarding advanced corrosion and failure of water extinguisher canisters when subject to non-approved additives such as firefightering foams.
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