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Would you go into this?
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I bring this up because many departments are straying away from interior firefighting. I know that some do not have the staffing or experience to do it very often, but there are plenty that do. This is a fire that happened at 14 T St NW yesterday in DC. Several reports of heavy smoke and fire showing upon arrival. Rear was almost fully involved. However with an agressive interior attack using 1 1/2" hand lines, they were able to get a knock on the fire and extinguish it within under 10 minutes and save this persons house. Here's a pic after the bulk of the fire on the first floor was knocked down.
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My main point is just to show that aggressive firefighting is still something that should be practiced when possible. Standing outside with a 2 1/2" would have probably meant the loss of this house and possibly others.(These are all row homes which means easy extension) Thought this may get some people thinking and be an interesting discussion.
Story from fire with pics: http://www.dcfire.com/history.html?view=1&id=70519
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Randy Totten on
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Great discussion. I just joined FFN so this will be my first reply. We do not have anything like this in rural Ga but from what I can see and read from the pics I would not hesitate to go in. I read all the post and there sure is alot good points and info. I look forward to reading more.
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Permalink Reply by 55 TRUCK on
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It was probably me. We search all structures. I'm sure that You and the other city guys can attest to this fact. Homeless people/squaters do start and get trapped in fires. Not to mention the Junkies who start them or the person trying to hide a homocide by torching a structure.
No matter what the structure is occupied until the search proves otherwise.
even if it's an occupied structure and the home or buissness owner says it isn't.
We've had fire where the occupents were mistaken about everyone being out. Case in point we were called to a residence fire at 1am. U/A we found a wood frame 3 bed rm single story ranch. Family outside stated everyone was out fire was in the Kitchen area located in the B/ C corner spread into the ajoining living rm. Fire was knocked quikly. First due truck helped a teenager out the rear.
Come to find out the parents thought he was staying at a friends house. The boy and his friend had a disagreement so the boy came home and went to bed. Neeedless to say the parents had no clue he was in the house.
I know this has occured at other fires through out the years. People unaware that ome one besides them was home.
I also know that the person could be trying to hide a crime. One inccident that stands out occured some yrs ago. Working residence 2 story split level. early morning, lady in her night gown fractured ankle from jumping out window. Lady states no one else is home. FF start to make attack lady starts yelling that she is the only one, that there's no need to fight the fire. First in crew notices the carpet up the staires is very wet. It's gasoline luckly it didn't light off. Fire got put out. FF rescued the ladies 12 yr old daughter who she had paddlocked in her room before using gasaoline to set the house on fire.
I think this was a Dallas Tx.
"We're the Indianapolis Fire Department and We Don't Stand Outside Fires!"
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Permalink Reply by Ben Waller on
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It has nothing to do with my rank. It has everything to do with promoting a false dilemma as if two extreme, polar opposites are the only two choices available.
There are other choices available between the two extremes.
That exactly fits the definition of false dilemma.
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capcity, I understand your post quite well thanks. I just disagree with you, and I gave reasons why I disagree.
The overriding concern here is that lots of people who don't cover lots of solidly-built buildings read things posted here. A "We go inside, no matter what" or anything similar posted is going to attract attention from people who want to be just like your department. If you apply DC rules to places that have unsprinklered big box buildings or lightweight engineered construction, emulating DC is going to potentially contribute to bad outcomes in other places.
When you post absolutes that don't apply everywhere, you're posting things that aren't accurate. When you post without considering the fact that your stance might contribute to harming brother or sister firefighters whose circumstances don't match yours, that's simply looking out for those who you apparently didn't consider before you posted.
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Does the "we don't stand outside" rule include fully-involved mobile homes?
Does it include Type V dwellings with fire in a lightweight truss void or other engineered roof support system?
Does it include large-area flashed over fires in unsprinklered big box commercial occupancies or fully involved mill construction?
If it doesn't include going inside all of the above potentially suicidal situations, then your "...We Don't Stand Outside..." statement isn't completely accurate.
If it is, then you're engaging in well-intentioned suicide attempts.
If you don't have those fire types, then it's healthy for those of us who do to realize that there are other options besides going inside even if it is suicidal.
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Permalink Reply by Rod Irvine on
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fun
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Permalink Reply by Mark Oomkes on
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"We're the Indianapolis Fire Department and We Don't Stand Outside Fires!"
Seriously?
I mean, really?
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Permalink Reply by capcityff on
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Who cares if he is a chief? That means absolutely nothing. Depending where you work, it's a completely different position. Some places require over 20 years while some are chiefs after 3 at a slow department just because they took classes. At my department a chief isn't even a fireman anymore, he's a politician. There's over 2000 guys on the job here so he doesn't have time to fight fire. There's plenty of plain "firemen" here that are chiefs at their volly houses. Being a chief really means nothing to me if you aren't my chief and know my department.
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Permalink Reply by EngineLadder on
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I got a better one for ya "We are the BCFD and we have been doing it right for a 150+ years" How long has DC been doing it right CaptCityff?
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Permalink Reply by Gregory Borg on
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You miss my point and my sarcasm, what I meant was arguing with Ben is pointless. My point about chiefs is like yours, my chief has never even been a fireman ever. He is just a manager, college grad manager.
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