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Would you go into this?
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I bring this up because many departments are straying away from interior firefighting. I know that some do not have the staffing or experience to do it very often, but there are plenty that do. This is a fire that happened at 14 T St NW yesterday in DC. Several reports of heavy smoke and fire showing upon arrival. Rear was almost fully involved. However with an agressive interior attack using 1 1/2" hand lines, they were able to get a knock on the fire and extinguish it within under 10 minutes and save this persons house. Here's a pic after the bulk of the fire on the first floor was knocked down.
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My main point is just to show that aggressive firefighting is still something that should be practiced when possible. Standing outside with a 2 1/2" would have probably meant the loss of this house and possibly others.(These are all row homes which means easy extension) Thought this may get some people thinking and be an interesting discussion.
Story from fire with pics: http://www.dcfire.com/history.html?view=1&id=70519
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Ben Waller on
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That's not accurate, capcity.
Fire buildings sometimes collapse after extinguishment.
Firefighters are sometimes injured or killed during overhaul.
Overhaul-stage fires produce large amounts of airborne poisons that are dangerous to anyone overhauling without SCBA. Some of the new cyanide research indicates that cyanide in smoke can be dangerous if absorbed through your turnout gear and skin - something no turnout gear is designed to prevent.
Firefighters can fall through weakened floors after the fire is extinguished.
I agree that the fire should be extinguished expediently, but there is no such thing as "no longer dangerous" on the fireground.
Does extinguishment remove on type of hazard from the fireground - absolutely, but it doesn't remove several others and it can actually increase smoke inhalation hazards for the unmasked.
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Permalink Reply by capcityff on
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You missed the entire point of my post. I know you always like to nitpick to make me feel wrong, but really now. My post said nothing about the fire ground. The FIRE is no longer a problem if the FIRE is out. That's 100% true because I wasn't talking about anything else.
The post was supposed to stress my view that aggressive firefighting isn't as dangerous as most people think. You move in faster and aggressively but it may mean the difference between putting a few rooms out real quick or having an entire structure involved because you waited so long.
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Permalink Reply by EngineLadder on
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All I know is that in Bmore companies beat the chief in all the time and when you have a middle of the group row how you do not have time to walk around the block. Every position on the engine or truck has a job officer does his size up and back up the pipeman. Our officers do not have time to walk around the block unless they want the second in engine to take there fire. We do have engines that go to the rear the 4th and 5th on the box so I guess with what the first in officers sees and what the companies in the rear see that makes our 360.
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Greg I know what you are talking about with Detroit and them using the deck gun. In baltimore its the officers discretion and it rarely happens. On this fire I believe they used two 1 3/4 attack lines and went interior. But to tell you the truth if an engine did use there deck gun it would not surprise me if the second in engine would try to go in and get it while the first engine was setting up. On boxs all our companies are right on top of one another. And any delay of the first in engine putting water on the fire will be taken advantage of by other companies.
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CapCityff
Another just as important question is would you go in if this were a vacant boarded up row house. In bmore we have according to the census 42000+ vacant buildings, and I know that in DC you have your fare share also. (got lost in anacostia and trinidad once)
Here is an article from the other day and we have stories like this happen all the time
http://backstepfirefighter.com/2010/10/10/why-we-search-baltimore/
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Same here. We have our 2nd and 4th take the rear, but it's essentially the same. If you want to walk around the block you might as well just scrap the place then because it will take so long. I'd say what we do works because as cocky as it sounds, I think DC and Baltimore have some of the best row home firefighting skills in the nation. Of course we also have more row homes than pretty much anywhere.
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Definitely. I always say that how do you know it's vacant until you do a search. Might have been you or 55truck that said that there's a difference between abandoned and vacant.
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Its not Cocky its Confidence.
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False dilemma. There are other options between those two extremes, and they're very common in a lot of places.
Not everything in our business is limited to two polar-opposite choices.
And an extinguished fire is still dangerous until it's dead out. If it's not dead out, it's still ofgassing dangerous combustion products.
Or...do you run to do overhaul, too?
My point here is that you seem to like painting most situations as absolutes, when reality often includes many other options. You also seem to like absolutist statements that may or may not apply to your department, and that certainly don't apply to many others.
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Permalink Reply by Gregory Borg on
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Thanks, we would do the same, every first due wants the second due to lay to them. We do not lightly give up the attack lead. I have stolen my share of nozzles laying by the front door. I guess Detroit has so many vacant houses it makes sense there.
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You're just not understanding my post since you like to nitpick at everything. I honestly don't know how to be more clear. I'm sorry if my department doesn't live up to your standards. Maybe EngineLadder or 55truck can help me out. They are a couple that seem to think like me being in similar departments.
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Arguing with a Chief? Like pounding sand in a rat hole, he will be right in the end, he is the Chief! Let it go.
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