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Age and The Ability to Perform
Should a persons age be a facture in determining if they can or cannot perform certain tasks for the fire department? What about a persons weight? Or should it be if you can perform your task performances in the allotted time no matter how old you are or how much you weigh? I have been reading a discussion (and participating in it) where if you are older you are more stubborn, and over confident in your abilities. What about those who are younger fresh out of school and academy should that same comment apply to them?
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Fabulous Heather Days of Summer on
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Under age 18, makes you a minor, and you should not be on the fire ground or emergency scenes or training around heavy machinery.
Many who reach an older age are challenged by the Motor Vehicle Department as unsafe to drive vehicles. Certainly if you are unsafe to drive vehicles, I would think you are unsafe in the same situations as someone under age 18.
In my experience the Chief and officers influence who works in what tasks and they take the efforts to structure each scene and training with a naturally monitored level safety about each persons strengths and weaknesses, including age and weight and height and experience and injury. You can be 30 and physically healthy but make poor decisions, so it is not black and white.
Such as a smaller and more agile member of my department I regularly would be asked to do the small space rescues and we had several guys that rocked it as truck operators, so if we were assigning tasks, we were all happy to have them use their mastery to run the pumps.
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Permalink Reply by Mike Schlags (Captain Busy) Retd on
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I don't want to sound insensitive here but... if you cannot do the job, you have no business being on the fireground. If you are too fat, out of shape and again, cannot do the job then you have no business jeopardizing others safety by being on the fireground. The job of a firefighter is an extremely physical "arduous" job. With that said, and understanding the physiological stresses that occur, someone who is "older", while being stubborn may find themselves on that river in Egypt... de-nile...
There's no mystery about cardiac issues and fireground fatalities from folks having massive heart attacks. This is not a hobby, the job of a firefighter. It's serious business that demands top physical and mental capabilities and performance on the fireground by firefighters.
This is why many departments have annual physical testing and standards to enable maintaining firefighter fitness and preparation for emergency response. If you don't subscribe to this train of thought, which is to always pursue top physical and mental conditioning, then you really need to rethink whether this is the right gig for you or not. Others lives may depend on it.
CBz
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Permalink Reply by Fireyladd - Retired Chief Sharp on
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Well said my friend Mr BZY!!!!! Unfortunatly many departments have no physical testing or ristrictions. If you can wear the gear an your breathing your in. Sad but true. Dosnt take very long reading posts or responses on here to get an eye full of attitudes and ignorance of what's really involved in this service. The desire to be part of something and departments need of volunters many times clouds to minds of those in charge to ignore the truth and as you say head down that river DE NILE!
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Permalink Reply by Patti Walz on
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I know many a firefighter who look over weight and out of shape, but when it comes to task performances they could run circles around the guys who are in top shape. Any one can have a heart attack on scene or injure them selves. Physically fit or not. So when are you to old to perform on a fire ground?
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That is how it is with my station. We all communicate so we know who is comfortable doing certain tasks.
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Permalink Reply by Karr Quintero on
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Well I see my comments were used in this post so here I go..
As a Firefighter in a VFD, we are trained in all aspects and on every pice of eqipt. so to be able to take any spot and do the job right. Obviously by the 70 year old going on a call by himself, he is in a VFD also. And was in no way able to provide proper rescue by himself. Im 40, well fit and well trained and i am in no way able to provide proper rescue for that scenario by my self.... its reality, takes atleast 3 people to properly and safely extract a person from an auto wreak.
i can see where age wouldnt matter in a staffed department, with assignd positions, but a VFD has to be versital and flexible with their crews.
and a responders health IS a big issue, and maturity is also..
at a minimal, 2 responders are needed for safty and accountability.
and yes the younger ones need to be kept on a leash for safty issues and lack of hands on experiance. pair them up with the old guy..lol
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Permalink Reply by John on
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As long as you can do your job safely, an in a fair amount of time ther should be no problem.....I myself usually out run all of the younger guys on an incident, but not all of them. When I get to the age where I cannot do my job safely, or put the crew in danger then I am out.
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Very well said and respected.
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I absolutely agree that at least two responders are needed for safety and accountability.
Thank you. No matter how big or how little their contribution is, what their age or physical condition is their contribution is important to the success of the job so long as everyone communicates with each other.
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communication is vital, always.
someone saying they are not comfortalble or capable of doing somthing that another is, can be detrimental to succesful objective. switch up if need be. none of us can realy do it all perfectly, thats why we are a team. and also why we train.
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Permalink Reply by Jack/dt on
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I've yet to meet anyone who looks "over weight and out of shape" that actually wasn't. In fact it's clearly implied in the statement, over weight and out of shape. How can you look like that and NOT be like that? It is a rare instance at best. And if you're going to use as an example an NFL defensive linebacker then you damn well better be making sure that your "over weight and out of shape" looking vollie puts in the same amount of weight and physical training as that linebacker, and within the same age range. Otherwise your statement doesn't wash.
True that anyone can have a heart attack but there are people that are at a higher risk because of age, weight and conditioning, not to mention pre-existing conditions and predisposition. In a paid department many of those variables are filtered out by hiring within an age range and with a mandatory retirement age. NFPA pre-employment physicals serve to winnow out many of the at-risk individuals and yes, there will be some that get through. But far less than on the vollunteer side.
Having an attitude that "we take anyone and everyone" and that "there's a place for everyone" only serves to heighten the risk of dying within a VFD. Not having (generally speaking) a mandatory retirement age means that there are and will continue to be, LODD in the 60-80 year range. Why are 80 year olds still on a department? Equally important why are there minor children on the fireground and being utilized?
The attitude that a VFD will take anyone and there's a place for them all reflects the social club mentality still prevalent out there. That along with the cape wearers who think that being a fireman is some kind of god given duty means that people see anyone wanting to join a/their department as an annointed/chosen one and so would never refuse them admittance. And why is it that so many vollies are killed responding/returning? Is it just plain bad luck or are there other factors at play, such as immaturity, inexperience and complacency? I'm betting it's all three along with the super hero mindset that encourages them to speed and be reckless as well as the department that allows it all to occur.
Maybe the really small VFD's can shuffle their people around according to needs, abilities, likes, dislikes, phobias, moods and interests but how is that ever in the interest of your community? Why not just take people who can and WILL do it all, whatever they're assigned to do, without having to play muscial chairs.
Why would you staff a VFD with people not fully capable? Simply for the manpower numbers? That means you end up with more people standing in the yard watching than you have inside working. But hey, at least you know all them outside are rooting for you. Makes the job so much easier.
Why not instead partner up with another department, consider regionalizing, anything so that you can make your social club fire department an actual fire department? Hey...just tossing out a few thoughts and ideas.
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