The Social Network & Community JUST for Firefighters
R...E...S...P...E...C...T
This discussion will NOT be closed (well...at least not by me)
Respect...
what you need...
what you want....
Recognizing and accepting that (most especially) people in this profession tend to be strongly opinionated and have a wicked sense of humor, attempting to regulate humor and opinion, especially in the midst of a "conversation", is both presumptuous and dictatorial.
Towards that end, there is no off-topic discussion in this thread, so long as you can 'somehow' relate it back to respect. Take it where ever it goes, sarcasm is allowed. No...really.
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Jack/dt on
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Maybe it's just me but is there appears to be a lack of distinction between basic 'human rights' respect and' job' respect?
Basic human rights respect is just that, treating another person with regard, as you would want to be treated. In other words, yelling, "hey you (or 'dumbass') get over here," is lacking in fundamental respect. Learning someone's name shows basic human rights (before you call them a dumbass).
But job respect is different. Coming into a department as a probie you have to show those around you, not so much what you've learned, but what you can learn and that you are capable of (continued) learning. I think a lot of what is perceived as 'disrespect' from an experienced firefighter is more likely a testing of one's character. If your ego is so large so as not to be able to be humbled a bit as a probie, then is suggests your ego may be even more of a problem down the road. It's what the "probationary period" is all about. Weeding out those that aren't going to be a good fit.
Of course there are going to be 'senior' firefighters that are (or appear to be) less competent or capable than an up and coming probie. But is that because they refuse to keep up their skill set or are there other factors at work of which a probie would have no idea?
Most of the complaints about respect in these forums seem to always emanate from younger (mostly) volunteer firefighters. I think that may be a result of never having had to earn respect throughout their school and early adult years. It was automatic and decreed to them simply by showing up everyday at school. And joining their volunteer fire department was not much different than joining a club or team in school. And the same expectation of automatic respect came with it. Unfortunately the transition from child to adult requires skills that are seldom taught anymore.
How being a second, third or whatever generation firefighter automatically warrants respect is something that I don't understand. Unless of course that 'respect' comes about because your father was highly respected and the assumption is that you will be like him. Would that be a fair assessment? That being the case then, if your father was a fekk up then it stands to reason you will be too and will be judged that way the first day you step into the firehouse. Or would that not be fair?
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Permalink Reply by Fireyladd - Retired Chief Sharp on
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I agree Jack. Seems that some have confused basic human consideration for R. E. S. P.E.C.T.
How we are treated every day or by others is a common consideration. However, you treat others the way you would like to be treated. Thats every day common respect.
On the fireground or emergency scene there is a chain of command that is established as a means to insure everyone knows their role and we all go home safely (SAFISH)
Do what your told an follow orders. Its not a multiple choice questions test. Your response is simply to follow orders and get the job done. You want my respect? Earn it by doing the job, following orders, keeping you mouth shut, dont be a whiner, help to clean up and put the equipment back in service, show up for training an participate, ECT! You want my disdain? Bitch, whine, back bite, be lazy, only show up on calls, this list can go on all day in a negative manner. Simple! you want RESPECT? Get it the old fashioned way. EARN IT!
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Permalink Reply by Just Plain Craig Moyer on
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I guess this stems from my discussion about Respect.
I respect anyone who dons the helmet (fire) or vest (ems) and does the job. I lose respect when they think their above others because of status, experience or pay level. I don't respect people who know it all. After 30 years I don't know half the stuff I should because its always evolving.
I love this discussion board as a whole because 99% of the time we can disagree and still get along. People who I have "argued" with have request me a friend on here. I respect that they can give an opinion listen to mine and we can agree to disagree or even change each others mind.
My respect list is 100 times longer then my do not respect list.....
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Permalink Reply by Derek R. on
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This kind of goes along with Jack's post of job respect and basic human respect.
Went to sign up for a class some time ago. Heard some good things about it. After some time there, I had the utmost respect for the instructor. Knew his stuff inside and out, and had excellent teaching abilities.
In the 10+ years in this class, I got to know him on a personal level and found him to be a total @$$ to his family and friends. He was the type to "command respect". Well, he didn't get it from me. But, I still had great respect for him as a teacher.
I'm telling this story just as an example of different types of respect from personal experience. Some given and some earned.
Like others in here, I am respectful and courteous to those I meet and would appreciate the same in return which leads to the gaining or losing of respect.
As a volly, I didn't have the experience of being "the probie", but do understand the meaning behind it, so I can't relate, personally, to the respect issue on that. I do, however, wish I could. I don't think it's meant as a lack of respect towards the probie though (mostly).I think of it as one long, grueling endless physical and mental test.
Good post Jack, I like how it goes all over the place but still keeps the topic of respect.
KSHF
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Permalink Reply by Richard Armstrong on
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Oh i'm nothing but respectful to people outside the service on a human rights level.that is just second nature to me as well as others but people can still lose that from me to.I've seen guys cheat on their wives and seen wives cheat on their husbands people backstabbing,gossipers.they all lose a certain amount of respect from me and have to earn it back.
In the service there has been alot of times where for instance (and I'm sure your gonna argue me on this one Jack) we had a guy leave our dept. for a full time one and he was told that if he wanted to make the union forget about your old dept.I do not respect the guy for forgetting about us and where he came from and I donot respect that other dept. for their dictating that in order for him to keep his job this is who you can only talk to.And there is several other things along with it but I respected him as a FF cause he knew alot and he was a guy I asked questions and he give me alot of help but now he don't get the time of day from anyone on our department.
I guess we all look at RESPECT differently.I look at it like I said Everyone has my respect from the first time I meet them and it's up to them if they want to keep it or not.Others take the "Kneal before me and kiss my feet" approach beacause they have been on 20 years and that's fine if other people want to kneal before him but that don't fly with me and I don't care if he is a FF a Captain or a Cheif.I respect them for their position and take my orders but you can be damn sure that if I feel like I'm being treated like gum on his shoe he will be hauled in the office and we will be having a discussion about it.At our department we have a pretty good open door policy with the Officers and if there is a problem they tell us to approach them.They will tell you if you are nuts or they will say ya I guess your right i didn't notice it thanks for bringing it up.Power only gets you so far in the world but if your an ass as an officer you can lose respect from your men to.It goes both ways and I'm not saying any of the officers on here are that way but there are some and I'm a firm believer in if you want it you have to give it to,and if you don't give it your not going to receive it.It is a two way street and there is a fine line between the two that everyone has to stop every once in awhile and give themselves a little check everyonce in a while.And I mean everybody!!! no one is above giving and receiving respect!!!
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Before I get a new one chewed for saying I would pull an officer in to the office cause I know someone is gonna say something.If i feel that he or she is treating me or everyone badly and "poertripping"I'm gonna get to the bottom of it.If it is out of character then for sure I'm gonna talk to him because that may be a sign of a problem of maybe a personal life problem that may be preceived as a disrespect issue that he may want to talk about but don't want to just come out and talk about and by calling him on it it cured two problems he got his issue off his chest and I saved him from being disrespected by me and the rest of the dept. or maybe it's a bad call that has got to him because we've all had them and maybe to proud to talk it out from behind his to tough to bother me fasade and again by calling him on it I saved a bunch of misconception.That is what I meant not that I'm an idiot and don't respect officers or fellow FF's.
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Permalink Reply by Foley&son on
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l.......................................................o..........................................................................l
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Permalink Reply by Al Williams on
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respect to me is to be accountable , respectfull, having your shit together, doing your job ! to put your ass out there every day ,be safe good bless
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Permalink Reply by Paul Montpetit on
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Aaron...I was quite the smart ass while in the service....(yes, could you believe that...?) I once told a 2nd Lt. politely and properly...."Sir, if you weren't a Lt. I would tell you to kiss my ass. But, You are a Lt. and I can't say that to you." He got madder than I have ever seen anyone get...but you know something ...there wasn't shit he could do because of the way I said it.....I agree with Mike...RESPECT is earned not given out lightly....
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If you post a discussion and don't like the comments, then maybe YOU shouldn't post discussions.
CLOSING your discussion to further comments, and THREATENING to report people who continue to "argue" in your discussion (IF you decide to re-open it) is CHILDISH and a very clear sign of insecurity and immaturity.
Again, read the Original Post above and have fun here.
Jack
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