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2nd Alarm or Not, That is the Question
I noticed that on alot of senerio's people are quickly calling from 2nd alarms. And I noticed that I read about a house fire going to 3 alarms. In our county (New Castle, DE) most alarms are 2-1-1. Working alarms brings a RIT unit which is usually the 3rd due engine. Each additional alarm brings 2-1-1. Which means the 2nd due rescue could be responding from a distance.
My thoughts on 2nd alarms. For years we had issues with officers piecemealing a 2nd alarm. By that I mean I need another engine. I need a rescue, give me a ladder, etc etc. Some felt that by pulling the trigger people would feel that they paniced or at least over reacted. Over the last couple of years more and more officers are calling the "duece" as the young'n like to call it.
As an officer you have to understand what you need and why you need it. Take a vollie company has a house fire at 8am in a hydranted development. First engine goes on location with fire showing. They have another engine from mutual aid on the road. What do they need and why? A 2nd alarm, an additional engine, ladder or rescue. Our enignes are capaable of running at least 6 lines. So another engine...no. Is there extension or ventalion issues so maybe a ladder? Need more manpower so maybe a rescue? How about just a ladder and resuce. Call for an engine cover so one is on the road.
I thing I would love to hear is someone call for a 2nd alarm for manpower and FF's respond oin Van's since apparatus is needed. I've seen many a fire when 10-15 units are parked somewhere and the FF's at the scene.
But remember you need to understand what you need and why you need it before you call it
My thoughts on 2nd alarms. For years we had issues with officers piecemealing a 2nd alarm. By that I mean I need another engine. I need a rescue, give me a ladder, etc etc. Some felt that by pulling the trigger people would feel that they paniced or at least over reacted. Over the last couple of years more and more officers are calling the "duece" as the young'n like to call it.
As an officer you have to understand what you need and why you need it. Take a vollie company has a house fire at 8am in a hydranted development. First engine goes on location with fire showing. They have another engine from mutual aid on the road. What do they need and why? A 2nd alarm, an additional engine, ladder or rescue. Our enignes are capaable of running at least 6 lines. So another engine...no. Is there extension or ventalion issues so maybe a ladder? Need more manpower so maybe a rescue? How about just a ladder and resuce. Call for an engine cover so one is on the road.
I thing I would love to hear is someone call for a 2nd alarm for manpower and FF's respond oin Van's since apparatus is needed. I've seen many a fire when 10-15 units are parked somewhere and the FF's at the scene.
But remember you need to understand what you need and why you need it before you call it
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by blair4630 on
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About the most reasonable fire I've seen recently is one we had last month. Our box alarms are custom by dept., and I don't remember ours to a T...but we had a well involved house fire, OIC called a second alarm early...ended up with 3 engines (one was a rescue engine), a ladder, an air truck, and a squad. The 3 engines comes in because they were one from each dept. I consider that reasonable.
I saw a house fire a few years back (I was working EMS)...we had probably 6-8 engines, 2 ladders, 1-2 rescues, the normal utilities, all in all it was something like 8-9 departments for a 3 story house fire. That, in my opinion, is way, way excessive.
I agree, if you need the manpower, get it, but sometimes stuff just goes way overboard.
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Allow me to reply to my own comment....
After reading some of the other comments on here, I have to agree that having FF's without a truck puts them in a less-than-desirable situation if there is another incident after clearing the scene. Also, I wasn't thinking about paid dept.'s that have 3 person engines. I was thinking along the lines of volly dept.'s that routinely get 6 out per truck. That's definetely a big consideration there.
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Permalink Reply by CHRIS PUYLARA on
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After reading some of your post-- here it goes. At 8am we have too many people unavailable because of work...if MY truck is first due with MA coming ( and depending how long it takes ),we might pass the hydrant and have second due tag it going in.Usually we tag the hydrant going in,second due might start ventiliation if we're that far.Yes your engines can pump 6 lines----but you FORGOT one critical piece here--if you didnt tag the hydrant going in.....MA is 6-10 minutes out...water on your truck is all you got....90 gallons/ minute----I'm thinking water conservation....dont want no 6-7 line off the truck.I look at it this way--some areas that have volunteers and are rural SHOULD have AUTOMATIC mutual aid, its easier to get them on the road and turn them back then to get there and realize that you are in trouble and then call for help.
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Permalink Reply by Dwight Mumpower Jr on
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My department's first alarm assignment for a single family dwelling residential structure (be it a fire, alarm, or smoke investigation) brings 3 engines, 1 ladder and 2 med units. Depending on the BC's evaluation of the weather conditions, 1 additional engine can be sent without calling the "deuce". With the first alarm we have 12 members comming, and if the additional engine is rolled bumps us to 15-16 member ballpark. Because of the staffing logistics of the department a second alarm is usually asked for by the first due officer if we have something actually working, if we are going to go defensive immediately then we don't ring a second, all up to the first due officer, some older guys say not until ya need it, newer guys are on it as soon as they roll up with smoke.
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Permalink Reply by Chief Dino on
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I agree. During the day, when we are extremely short staffed, and those of responding from work might have a 15 mile drive to get to the hall. We always, call mutual aid and get them moving for a structure fire or for grass/woodland fire threatening structures. Mutal aid can be turned around if we get a good response from the Dept. Calling for mutual aid, for us, 10 min into a fire, means that water or manpower support from mutal aid is still another 20 min away. Lots of pine construction here in SE Texas. 30 minutes into a fire means, more often than not, we'll be saving the foundation.
TCSS
Shawn
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Permalink Reply by Richard Armstrong on
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In our area if we get a structure fire in the rurals we first ask if 911 dispatcher does not confirm before hand if there has been multiple calls on it if there has been then automatically page out 1 or two other departments for tankers cause there aren't hydrants in most of the rurals.If it is a large structure we will page for pumper and crew also from closest department for extra hoselines on the fire.
We've had at one fire which was 3 smoke barns on fire and everything in the guys yard pretty much on fire from the radiant heat that we had 6 full departments at this thing from 3 a.m. til 7 p.m.Some of them were called in after the first 6 0r 7 hrs because guys were gettin tired.It's alot nicer having some crews comin in off the bat when it's confirmed that it's a true structure fire and knowing that you have the otion to turn them back once arriving on scene rather than waiting because we all know how quick things can turn from bad to worse.
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