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Bail Out- Kits, Systems, Components, Training, and Suggestions.
My department does not currently provide us with any sort of a bail out system, harness, rope, webbing, or any other self rescue components. I am looking to change that before something happens to someone and then it is too late. We have quite a range of buildings in our small city. We have everything from single story homes to high rise commercial structures. Yet our department is behind the curve in what I feel is such a simple safety tool and a necessary tool.
I am looking for some help, I would like to know what system everyone uses. What harnesses, what rope, what companies, and how they like each of these. Anything that you guys would feel would give me legitimate points to present to my admin. If anyone has websites, videos, pictures, stories, or slideshows that you feel would help please offer them up.
Thanks guys
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Reg Mathis on
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Hey Robert,
My department doesn't provide us a system either. So most of our guys have provided their own. I, myself, keep a 20' piece of a good quality life-safety rope in my gear. One end is pre-tied with a bowline and has a carabiner attached, so if I DO have to bail, all I have to do is find a decent anchor point, and out I go! Total investment is about $20.
Just one solution,
TCSS
Reg
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Permalink Reply by FETC on
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Years ago, my department decidied not to provide us with a "system". They have decided that maintenance, initial training, continuous on-going training to stay proficient with jumping out of windows, is a liability not too mention the cost to outfit many firefighters, with multiple sets of gear.
Back then, I was upset at the fact we were not getting them. But later after taking more classes, I stumbled across a quote Andrew Fredericks said, If you put the fire out right the first time, there shouldn't be a need to jump of of windows. Hmmm interesting thought.
In the years passing, I have seen many buy a PSS from me and never - ever - use it. Not even use it to stay proficient in case you had to bail in a life or death moment. Then I have also heard some say they could push the envelope if the department had given us a PSS... (?) So you see, from an adminsitration stand point, it is not just a cost factor in decision making.
I can say though that the entire department was trained in a certified Safety/Survival and RIT class. We were trained on window rope slides, like Reg has said. Therefore, we did get a 50' piece of sterling rope with a caribeaner, stored in my bellows pocket. We can locate an anchor point, wrap, and bail if needed.
There are many PSS systems out there, I personally own two different kinds, (I sell them as well) but I am not going to promote any one brand here on FFN (against the rules) but all are good and they will offer you protection at different levels.
Some will leave your wallet quite a bit lighter as well.
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Permalink Reply by blair4630 on
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Never heard of this site, just checked it out. Pretty good resource! Also, for anyone reading...I saw referenced in another thread a few weeks back www.vententersearch.com and checked that out. GREAT site.
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Permalink Reply by Jason Brooks on
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I have used almost every available system out there at some point or another. That being said, you can "build" a kit for as much as you are able to spend. Yes, the PSS is awesome, I carry one myselft. But, you can accomplish the same thing for about $100 a guy and have a very nice system. Just remember, whatever system you choose to go with, you need to be able to use it in your sleep. Train with it until it is second nature.
Webbing is a good inexpensive solution for a harness, if your guys know how to use it. 8mm escape rope, a couple of biners and a bag is the most basic way to make a kit.
I applaud you for trying to protect your guys, just make sure they train and stay proficient with the use of the system.
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Permalink Reply by Robert Hunt on
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I realize the basic webbing, rope, and a couple of biners will work. And if I can at least get that to be provided to everyone that would be great. But I am shooting for a class II harness at the least and then some form of a PSS in addition to would be optimal. However if we can get the harness then like many of you have said, we can piece together the rest. I myself carrying some webbing and rope but many of my brothers and sisters in the dept do not and I am just trying to get all my ducks in a row to present this up the chain.
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I have found a few good websites but had not seen this one yet and I really appreciate it. This is good stuff. Please keep it coming.
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I personally wear the RIT Rescue class II harness. Its not bad and not too expensive.
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Permalink Reply by Oldman on
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If you put the fire out right the first time, there shouldn't be a need to jump of of windows. Good quote.
I was telling some basic students watching ladder bailouts over the weekend at a training field day, that while that technique is good to know, if they learn to pay attention and recognize the signs of deteriorating conditions before they get bad enough to need to bail out a window, how much better off they would be.
My department doesn't have many of the types of buildings where a bailout would be necessary, so the prospect of the department buying the equipment and issuing it to the members, well it just wouldn't happen.
I would also have a problem with personnel having equipment and not using it, not continually training with it, and then when they need it, having it fail due to deterioration or lack of training.
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Permalink Reply by Ben Waller on
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Exactly. An ounce of prevention is worth an ounce of cure.
Other than an occasional ladder slide, there are not a lot of RIT or bailout success stories out there.
There are a lot of success stories when firefighters did pre-fire planning, did a 360 and a risk-benefit assessment, and stayed out of a Born Loser so they didn't have to bail out of it 5 or 10 minutes later.
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While this may be very true for commercial structures (pre-planning), it is impossible to do this for residential strcutures. Yes, the need for a good 360 and knowledge of building construction is just as important. However, the materials being used for the construction of contents and the structure itself are designed to burn hotter and faster than ever before. If you are not sure of the construction of a house, you may find yourself in a situation that may lead to your jumping out of a window. Not all crews take or need to take a charged hoseline with them. A PWC can put a lot of fire out if needed. But, to say that we do not need these sort of systems and that RIT has not had success stories is plain old nuts. There have been several RIT saves in the last year alone. There have been several cases of guys bailing out successfully as well. Not all departments throw ladders like Boston does. Those guys make sure that there is always a way to get out. The ability to have options to save your own rear end is what we are talking about here.
I would much rather never need to use my PSS in my career, than not have it should the need arise. We cannot depend on the outside guys to get ladders to all the windows and exits, it is normally logistically impossible. We cannot guarantee that Murphy will not show up at a fire and the floor will be burned through forcing us to get out in a hurry. Give your guys the most options that you can. But, make sure they train, train, train and are proficient with the tools that they have.
Yes, An ounce of prevention is worth an ounce of cure. But, in this business, there are too many variables that can make a situation change in an instance.
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Do you have links to the "several bailouts" and "several RIT saves". I know of a couple of ladder bailouts and no RIT saves recently. Those tend to be front page news...precisely because they are rare. By definition, if a ladder slide is available, then no bailout bag is needed. By definition, if RIT makes the save, then no bailout occurred.
Just wondering what your logic is here??
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I agree once again with all of you. Put the fire out and there is no need to bail out. However we all know that stuff goes wrong, not all the time, and not all that often but it does go wrong. If it should go wrong then having an additional tool is always a plus. No one can deny that.
I agree if individuals are not proficiant in training with those tools then they are just like any other and get rusty with time. But having a bail out kit can't be a bad thing. There is no negative to having an additional tool to use to get out when the s@#! hits the fan. Maybe the FF from Randolph, NJ would not have fallen the 10 or 15 feet down a ladder had he used a bail out system. Granted there are many contributing factors to how he got into that situation to begin with but never-the-less he could have used the bail out kit. Or how about the guys in the Bronx from the notorious "Black Sunday" fire. Had they all had them then there would be no "Black Sunday." Obviously they are a good thing, an important thing. So important that New York state past legislation that requires all departments provide personal with something. They may not have to provide a full self rescue system but something is better than nothing.
The points some of you made are dead on. A pre-fire plan and a 360 are essential in all fires. Being able to read smoke and changing fire conditions is a skill that can't be replaced and has to be mastered. But until everyone and every department is proficient in all of these aspects and until fires become routine and never changing, a bail out system is a great back-up plan.
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