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Water and Fire, Oh My!
Update:
Let me clear something up. I know this fire is a write off no matter what.
The intention here is to explore what we would do if this fire was one that victims were present in and was only smoke showing.
I am curious about how to handle an event where we are faced with adversity: inaccessibility and conditions that deem a rescue possible.
I have to tell you that when I saw this picture many thoughts ran through my head.
With the recent events in regards to natural disasters, this picture got my attention.
This is a picture from Hurricane Ike. I know this building is pretty well involved and as you can see, the street is flooded.
But, what if this was your area and you had this situation with confirmed victims? Now, let’s pretend for the sake of discussion you are the first arriving unit.
For those that deal with this, how do you pre-plan this kind of event and what would you do?
I have to admit, this situation is very remote in my area, but possible and we have never discussed a scenario like this. So, I’m flying by the seat of pants on this one as well.
Let’s hear what you all have to say.
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Kirk D. Baughman on
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my question is will the trucks even make it their?? look at the water.. i really don't want to be the first on scene. wow!!!!
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Permalink Reply by Reg Mathis on
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Well, the first good news is no need to hydrant up, just toss out the hard pipe with a barrel strainer and start pumping!
But seriously, everything else is the same. A little floodwater won't change our tactics.
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Permalink Reply by John Rulli Jr. on
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Ralph u crack me up bro lol......potential block party! wheres the fireboat
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Permalink Reply by Derek R. on
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if it's only smoke showing, like you wanted us to imagine, then I'd treat it like any other rescue. We would know the extent of the flooding, well, because that's what we're supposed to know, and procede with our zodiak for the rescue. That's if the trucks can't get there. Once victims were safe, go back with a portable pump and hose to spray water on the exposures. As mentioned above, good water supply.
So which insurance will the payout be for? Accidental fire? or natural disasters? I'm thinking the latter.
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Permalink Reply by Paul Montpetit on
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Why is access limited...?? If and that;s a big "IF" here there is only smoke showing we could throw ground ladders to use to get to the upper floors if needed....But we always try to use the primary entrance if possible....just because you can't get a ladder truck in here all is not lost.....I certainly hope that you weren't even considering going into this mess as pictures...victims or not....that is definitely recovery operations and not life rescue...I assume that there won't be 4 feet of water to deal with too.....LOL
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Permalink Reply by J. D. Rinard on
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If deep water, use a john boat to get to victims. Then work to protect exposures. And such. but as said deep water so is it really worth it?
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Permalink Reply by Jeff Cole on
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Actually a very good possibility for us, and in fact something we have dealt with from time to time. Except that the floodwaters are salt water, which creates a bigger problem. Newer apparatus will not be driven in high salt water. It will be ruined, useless. Reserve apparatus becomes front-line for known flood-prone areas. Also, use of retired military vehicles capable of operating in high water is part of the plan. A bigger problem is that with these tidal floods, usually the result of severe storms, is extremely high winds. Sustained at 40-50mph, with gusts 60-70mph, the hazards are compounded.
Downed, and invisible electrical wires, blowing debris, including glass, shingles, and just about anything not 'nailed down'. Gas leaks, and all types of fuel spills, the result on infiltration and garages and sheds contents, create their own specific hazards. Locating hydrants, and addressing them requires the aid of hydrant location books...Standard turnout gear-bunker pants become useless. Crews are quickly exhausted from trying to navigate these conditions, and can become hypothermic very quickly.
Aerials cannot be used, both due to winds, and lack of access. High winds will not only spread fire rapidly, but will disintigrate hose streams before they hit their target. Crews assigned to high water area are equipped with waders. Obviously most fires will become defensive, and be total losses. The efforts become protecting exposures. Reverse-lay procedures are established, pulling hundreds of feet of 3" and 2.5" hose, mainly to preconnected deluge guns, with the engines sent to dry ground to find a hydrant. When this is not possible, the military surplus vehicles, which are equipped with hose, and portble pumps to 500gpm are then deployed. However this is all pretty much ineffective. Consideration to using a low-boy trailer connected to a military surplus high water tactor with a reserve engine mounted on the trailer should be given by communities that may have potential for such a scenario. However, drafting from the street can become a huge problem with debris, and water contaiminated with fuels, etc.
The fire depicted here is a total loss, and is the most likely scenario. Exposre protection is the priority. Ya wanna complicate it? Think about how your going to affect any rescues, and how are you going to remove your victims!
In reality, flood water like this, ESPECIALLY salt water WILL change your tactics. It isn't realistic to expect to be able to respond to, and handle any and all types of emergencies under adverse conditions such as these.
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Permalink Reply by Paul Dudan on
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Smoke showing or fully involved like pictured, I don't think I would send an engine into those conditions. Unless that it has been comfirmed by the weather service or whoever, the flood is possibly still rising and may reach peak only after rising another two feet, stranding you rig 'in the drink'. Also to consider, all engines, gas or diesel, run on a fuel/air mix; not water. If your apparatus is not designed to work in a high water situation you run the high risk of taking in water through the intake. This will most likely result in a hole in a piston, as my department found out the hard way in a similar situation a few years back.
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