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Should a volunteer be forced into doing something they don't feel comfortable with?
My questions to anyone is this:
Should a volunteer member be forced into doing something that they don't feel comfortable with? What if they are being told that if they do not do this, they will no longer be a member of the department?
Here's what it going on (just to paint you the picture)...a member of the department who is medical only is now being told that if they do not do something, they will not be allowed to be a member anymore. This person gave up fighting "The Beast" a few years back due to an incident on a grass fire gone wrong. After that incident they gave up firefighting and pursued medical.
This person has been doing medical for 6 yrs now and there has never been an issue with that. Now, they are being told that they also have to become a firefighter again. Once again, if they do not follow this, they cannot be a member of the department. The issue cannot be taken to someone higher, i.e. county fire marshal, as he is the acting chief of the department during re-organization. The new S.O.G.'s for the county state that all members must be at least FF1 certified AND at least FR; preferably EMT-B.
The acting chief has been made aware of the circumstances as to why this person does not do firefighting anymore. He said he understands the reason, but that was as far as it went. Now, I'm not saying that an exception has to be made to accomidate for this, but if someone has the desire to help out their community as a medical responder, shouldn't that be taken into consideration? Shouldn't their loyalty in that part of the department be enough?
Yes, this person could leave the department, but it is the only other medical unit in the county that is run on a volunteer basis (2 other departments have medical units, but both are in the cities). The other county volunteer fire departments are just that, fire only.
In your opinion, what do you think that this member should say and/or do? Should they just walk away from something they love to do, or try to fight this battle and see where it goes? I would love to hear what you have to say to all of this. Any and all ideas/opinions would be greatly appreciated on this issue.
Laura
Should a volunteer member be forced into doing something that they don't feel comfortable with? What if they are being told that if they do not do this, they will no longer be a member of the department?
Here's what it going on (just to paint you the picture)...a member of the department who is medical only is now being told that if they do not do something, they will not be allowed to be a member anymore. This person gave up fighting "The Beast" a few years back due to an incident on a grass fire gone wrong. After that incident they gave up firefighting and pursued medical.
This person has been doing medical for 6 yrs now and there has never been an issue with that. Now, they are being told that they also have to become a firefighter again. Once again, if they do not follow this, they cannot be a member of the department. The issue cannot be taken to someone higher, i.e. county fire marshal, as he is the acting chief of the department during re-organization. The new S.O.G.'s for the county state that all members must be at least FF1 certified AND at least FR; preferably EMT-B.
The acting chief has been made aware of the circumstances as to why this person does not do firefighting anymore. He said he understands the reason, but that was as far as it went. Now, I'm not saying that an exception has to be made to accomidate for this, but if someone has the desire to help out their community as a medical responder, shouldn't that be taken into consideration? Shouldn't their loyalty in that part of the department be enough?
Yes, this person could leave the department, but it is the only other medical unit in the county that is run on a volunteer basis (2 other departments have medical units, but both are in the cities). The other county volunteer fire departments are just that, fire only.
In your opinion, what do you think that this member should say and/or do? Should they just walk away from something they love to do, or try to fight this battle and see where it goes? I would love to hear what you have to say to all of this. Any and all ideas/opinions would be greatly appreciated on this issue.
Laura
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Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by FETC on
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Jeff and Kali,
I was waiting to hear someone say something about... how we are all the same and should respect each other becasue we are equal and do the same job.
Sorry folks but sometimes it is clearly not the same. Here's my take: the fire chief sets the rules regardless of if you are paid, call or volunteer. If you want to be a member of said department, fall within the department rules or otherwise find something else.
I would love to use some of the suggestions that have been thrown out here, like, nah not gonna respond on that one - too scary... or just drag your feet and miss the truck... WTF?
If I did that it would not be in the best interest of my department's mission statement and I would most likely be "unemployed" in the near future.
I've personally heard people tell a chief... "you can't make me do that, I'm just a volunteer..."
Where's the professionalism with that mentality?
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Permalink Reply by ashfire on
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Our volunteer dept has three categories of memberships. Fire/EMS, EMS only and administrative. What categories does your dept have? I was a fire/ems member for 20 years until I was told by the ems officer to get on the ambulance wet and covered in mud from a convention contest, they had changed clothes and cleaned up and they wanted to drink beers and only had a few years in our dept and younger than me, to respond on a injuried child call with a rookie emt. The call turned into a mess because I had to tell the rookie everything to do and I was the driver. When we got to the hospital I had to tell the boys family I was sorry for the way I looked and for everything that happened on the call.
After that I changed my membership to administrative that week so I would not have to ride any calls and just attend drills and meetings and work events. I still have to take certain classes and retrain for my EMT because I was told I cannot step down my training unless I let it expire and then take First Responder or American First Aid.
I have been asked many times by other members to come back to be a driver on the ambulance and the brush unit but I had been out of the loop for sometime that I didn't feel I could get into the operations with all the changes for reporting and the way thing opeartions have changed.
The ems officer involved in my membership change got in trouble with another member, they got into a tiff with each other on the scene, on a call that caused a person to die from a medical condition and left them at their home. Both ended up leaving the dept and in court and losing their certifications.
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Permalink Reply by PAUL GERMOND on
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CRAZY. WHAT MORE CAN WE DO. WE ALL HAVE FAMILIES, JOBS, AND BILLS BUT WE SEEM TO MAKE THE TIME FOR CALLS WHEN THE PAGER GOES OFF. I KNOW IN MY DEPT WE RAN INTO THE SAME ISSUES. WE WERE TAUGHT TO BE FIRE FIGHTERS FIRST, THEN EMS OR WHATEVER YOU WERE COMFORTABLE WITH. THIS MADE IT VERY HARD FOR OUR EMS STAFFING WHO WANTED TO BE JUST EMS AND NOTHING ELSE. WE CHANGED THE RULES SLIGHTLY SO AS LONG AS YOU HAD THE COURSE "SCENE SAFETY" YOU WERE COVERED ON THE FIRE GROUND. WE ALL HAVE OUR LIMITS AND TO BE FORCED TO TAKE CLASSES THAT PUSH THEM TO FAR IS NOT RIGHT .
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Permalink Reply by Avery Dale on
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I am the Chief of a very small, very rural community Volunteer Fire & Rescue Unit. When we have members join they are asked to respond to all the calls they can but ultimatly they have the choice of Fire or EMS. I do not make them do anything they do not feel comfortable doing as long as they show up & work to the best of their ability. If they want to fight fire they have up to a year, or as soon as a class is available, to get a minimum of Certified Volunteer Firefighter & if they want to run EMS they have to get a minimum of First Responder.
My dad had a similar experiance as your member. He has been a Paramedic & volunteer firefighter since 1983 & had fought fire before having a Close-Call several years ago. Ever since then he has not activley engaged in firefighting however he does run the pump, pull hose, act as Saftey Officer & EMS standby, etc.
In the case of your member I see both sides of the fence. Your department has S.O.G's that says members have to be certified firefighters & fight fire, rules are rules. However, if he is not willing to try & overcome his fear & is determined to stay on the department, I would recommend to your Chief making him a Saftey Officer, Apparatus/Pump Operator, EMS Stand-by, etc. Maybe have sometype of grandfathered clause. How does the other members of your department feel about the issue? Petition? Department Vote?
I have been in the Volunteer Fire & Rescue Service my entire life. I have had several Close-Calls through the years but fortunatly none have effected me. However, I have seen some of the most hardened & veteran firefighter's find "the one" that scared them for life. Many that have had close-calls "CowBoy'd Up" & came back swinging. The way I see it s**t happens. Even the best run scene, with the best trained people & the best equipment are going to have things go wrong. The thing to do is make the best of situation, pray nobody get's hurt or killed, learn from the experiance & roll on.
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Permalink Reply by James Burton (Jamie) on
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We Have Firefighters that are uncomfotable with certain areas of the job, but they are more than useful in other tasks, I don't think that anyone should be forced to go into a fire, especially on a volunteer department. I agree with one of the other posts, If you are a paged Department and can get away with just turning up for the calls you choose, then so be it..we all know the 3am feeling of a medical call or another fire alarm at a house you have been to three times that day, and you decide whether you want to go or not...Its all relevant, providing you make your FD's Call percentage, who cares what calls you make....
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Permalink Reply by Alan Shaw on
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We must all remember that if you join a fire department the goal/mission is to fight fires. If you are not comfortable fighting fires, then why remain a member. Personally I think that not feeling comfortable at any fire, based on a single incident at a certain type of fire several years ago is nothing more than an excuse. We choose to join, after that there are few choices that are left up to us. Most choices need to be looked at through the lens of what best suits the needs of the department. If the department (through it's leadership) feels that there is no longer a need for medical only members or that everyone need to be a firefighter, especially if you have been trained as such, then that is that.
We can not have people who have personal reasons for not doing all or part of the job, staying around. That is at best counterproductive. Imagine it the other way around, what if you had a member who refused to go on medical calls, despite that being a significant part of your call volume. Would that member really be of use to your department? If so, how much value are they really bringing to the table?
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Permalink Reply by Jack/dt on
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fire department –noun 1. the department of a municipal government charged with the prevention and extinguishing of fire.
fire·fight·er also fire fighter (fīr'fī'tər) n. A member of a fire department who fights fires.
The above seems pretty reasonable to me. But then, I'm still gobsmacked every time I read where someone states that they are or someone is an "exterior" firefighter. At first I thought that meant wild land fires (different training and skill sets), then I realized that it meant that they only fought fires from the outside of the building. Isn't that what the homeowner attempts to do until we (meaning fire department, firefighters) arrive, go inside and put it out?
Deciding what one will and will not do in a fire department is an oxymoron. Now, in a social club you may be able to get away with that nonsense but in a fire department that should not be the case. If the Chief says all hands will be firefighters then that's it. Shake hands, courtesy and skip on out the door, they don't need you. They need firefighters. The real kind, the kind that actually go inside (typically, where the fire is) and extinguish the fire. (I so wish there was a font for sarcasm.)
sometimes, taking your ball and going home is actually the best thing to do.
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Permalink Reply by Loyd Dittfurth on
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regulations are regulations If you dont want to put the wet stuff on the red stuff then dont do other things
Pump operations
Tanker operator (grass fires)
Rehabilitation services
If its going threw academy again do it online. Thats what a medic at a department that I was with did. She has NO business ever being around a fire. But shes a dang good Medic so thatwas what she did.
cheer up if your good enough they will find away to keep you
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Permalink Reply by Jake Fireman on
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Jack;
Do you suppose that there are "Threshold" firefighters....Ones that really really WANT to go interior but are still stuck in the exterior ways...kinda standin in the door frame with a nozzle in hand?
PEOPLE.....Firefighters fight fire...not exterior, not interior...FIRE...all fire. "medical" people as they are referred to in this post do MEDICAL. If the fire chief says all members are firefighters and must qualify...then so be it!
Yea Jack where is that sarcasm font....WE SHOULD MAKE ONE!!!!!!
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Permalink Reply by Matt Gregg on
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this is the way i look at it, if your dept and county and state sog's (bi-laws, requirement...what every you want to call them say you must be FF1 certified, then take the class and that be it. I know with my dept, you are required to be FF1, first aid, cpr and basic hazmat and auto ex. thats it, take the classes and thats all that is "required" saying that if a member says i dont feel comfortable going in on fires.....we arent going to send you in. Thats how people get hurt if not dead. I think you can never train enough, but the first thing you learn in training is safety is first; yours and then your partners. so if you have someone who just needs to take the class to stay....take it and keep going the way your going now. There is always someone higher to answer to or ask. vol's are a rare breed anymore, its harder and harder to do so why run them off. everyone is a help if you use them right.
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Our county has a volunteer recruit school that goes over the training needed to be a firefighter or a ems personnel. They do the basics that all volunteers will need before they take FF1 or EMT training to start riding. The ems personnel have to take the FEMA training classes that are offered on the internet and have to go through mask fitting because all county ambulances carry SCBAs. As for ems personnel having FF1 I don't think its required because of the VRS traning in our county. They can take different ems training class offered by the county or the state for continuous training points along with emt retraining every three years.
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Permalink Reply by Paul Montpetit on
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In my opinion (and it is just me)....NO, they are here as a VOLUNTEER...if they are not comfortable doing something I would rather have them tell me so than to risk them getting hurt or worse in trying to push themselves to accomplish the task...there are plenty of things to do other than say climb a stick, or to enter as an attack team on a scene....utilize your people.....I don't know too many departments that have waiting lists anymore to join....make good use of your resources.....Paul
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