The Social Network & Community JUST for Firefighters
Mutual Aid Problems
I would like for some veteran firemen to inlighten me on something. On a call that has the Law enforcement, Fire dept, ems and rescue squad dispatched to an mva with injuries and possible entrapment, what is your main objective as far as working to free the victims.. My problem is we are trained to the fullest extent in vehicle extraction. We arrive on scene to find rescue squad with extraction tools out and not following any guide lines of safety. Such as, we are not allowed to even think about working on extraction with out proper ppe, full turn outs, boots, gloves, safety glasses plus shield. They wear none of this. My question is, What do you do in this case?
Replies to This Discussion
-
Permalink Reply by Rick Bibb on
-
Joe, The rescue squad is dispatched out only when there is an mva involving 3 or more vehicles and at our fire dept request. Several of them just show up on scene because "it was so close to them" even though they came from 15 miles across the way to get there.
-
-
You are correct, this is not an actual mutual aid issue. This is the reason behind me posting this situation, I want to get as many thoughts and inputs as possible. Anything and everything to help resolve this issue is greatly appreciated. My biggest concern is the safety of these guys in the squad.and it's just a matter of time that some outside dept is going to be doing an extraction or even worse,recovery of one of these cowboys.
-
-
Abe,
The rescue squad is a volunteer association that helps in rock, cave, water and anything else pertaining to rescue here in the county.They are usually dispatched along with other fire depts. Here where I live we have a large lake(Weiss Lake) that runs through out the county. Not to much of the lake is in the city limits. We have Lookout Mt that runs through the county as well. They receive a lot of calls relating to fallen rock climbers, people lost in caves,lost in the mountains, and a good bit of water rescue. Whats really sad about this is that my chief and I are the only two certified rope rescue people in the county,and my chief is the only certified diver in the county. I don't want to give the wrong impression here, They are very much appreciated for what they do and where they are needed, but not on our scene. You said you have read through this and agree with with the things being said and I do too and really appreciate the input. I just wanted to get some feed back on how other depts handled these situations. I don't have a problem with them doing what they're trained to do but with doing what they're not trained to do .
-
Permalink Reply by Kirk D. Baughman on
-
i would be looking for officers. if you are not an officer remember that your safty is first. were i'm at we have guide lines and SOG'S. do you have any of that? i would follow the chain of command and go to your next in charge? is this the first time this happen or is it going on all the time? if this is the first maybe they just got to exicited.
-
-
Kirk,
Our chain of command at the fire dept is pretty simple, chief/asst. chief/safety officer. We have what I like to think are very stern guide lines at our dept. We as firefighters do and obey our SOG's ,SOP's and any other rules and regulations implied by local ,state and federal laws.
This was an on going situation at about every wreck scene we had. The Chief finally gave me and a couple others permission to clear the scene if we see it nessesary. The only problem here was when we told them to clear the hot area they were totally lost. I say was because since I first started this post the chief has implemented new policy that says the only way the rescue squad is to particapate at any event in the city limits will be at the fire depts request.
-
Permalink Reply by Art "ChiefReason" Goodrich on
-
Some years ago, a small band of people started a non-profit water rescue service along the Mississippi River. They solicited donations and basically, they just wanted some money to buy WaveRunners to run up and down the river on and feel important.
Now; the fire departments along the river already had water rescue teams, so it wasn't long before they were butting heads with these new "rescuers".
It was solved when the WaveRunners were barred from water rescue scenes and donations dried up to zero after word got out that they served no useful purpose.
I realize that it might not be the case where you're at, but I post it to illustrate how redundancy can cause problems. If these rescue volunteers are valuable, then RECRUIT them onto the fire departments.
If it is clearly established who is in charge of duly dispatched calls in your jurisdiction, then absolutely, remove anyone who doesn't belong at the scene. They may be a bunch of good people and that's fine; good people will wait until they are dispatched.
Otherwise; they don't belong there.
TCSS.
Art
-
-
Brother that's a good question. I'm gonna have to check into that before I answer that. I do know that they get funding thru EMA , simply because this busted a hornets nest wide open when they received some money and the vol. depts in the county were denied money.
Their training is pretty much monkey see monkey do. They see or hear of one of the fire depts running a training program they usually follow suit. The training they receive is usually from one of their know it alls. We recently held an open door 40 hour vehicle and machinery extraction course through a fire college certified instructor. I'll give you 3 guess's how many of them showed up and your first two don't count. After our course was completed they held thier own class about a week later. I mentioned in an earlier post about some pics of this. One member standing on top of a car in shorts,t shirt and tennis shoes with shears in hand, another of a man popping a door dressed the same exsept he had on flip flops.
Some of the men there are on some of the counties vol depts, but usually after one or two of their rediculous stunts the firefighters quit. Their main ramrod is on an independent ambulance service.
About the jurisdiction part, They used to think they were the head huncho's, But we got a new sheriff(fire chief) in town and now it is our town.
-
Permalink Reply by Rescue601 on
-
Why doesn't the IC cancel them when it is deemed they aren't needed? If they still continue on scene then I would address the director of the EMA and have them written up for insubordination. Additionally if they aren't dispatched they still respond then are are being insubordinate.
From the sounds of it your EMA has let the situation get out of hand. In my county the Technical Rescue Team (water, high angle, confined space, trench) are highly trained firefighters from various departments around the county. All of the teams equipment is purchased by the EMA, but we respond as our designated unit and thus are fully prepared and have the gear we need.
-
Permalink Reply by Joey "BigShow" De Piano on
-
your looking at a common issue for everyone, there are no set guidelines for them cause their primary is patient car and stabilization so if they can get the victim out and maintain the safety ans well being they will do it..just as if we got there first we know our routine but if they want the patient taken out from B side and we clearly think A side is best we have to go by their determination if the victim dies or becomes paralyzed its your ass in a court room when the lawyer asks what formal ALS or BLS training you have over them or a medic crew..it sucks to see they have ill practices but it won't change till one or enough of them gets cut or trapped or burned and the townships start having to pay benefits for stupidity that someone will step up..of course you always be a real so and so and whip out a camera and record oit and send to OSHA or POSHA or the township..so on
- ‹ Previous
- 1
- 2
- 3
- Next ›
© 2024 Created by Firefighter Nation WebChief.
Powered by
