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Permalink Reply by FF Nick on June 11, 2009 at 2:25am

Well alot of the so to say "podunk" fire departments don't have to extra funds to sponsor proper academy level training. One of our old chiefs who is now just a life member was telling us stories about how they'd come up to the station on meeting nights and the first thing was everyone pulled a couple dollars out there pocket and go fuel up the rig. I could imagine that there is still rural FD's that have to do this today.

I really don't down it either, at least they're willing to learn one way or another. They may even start off with better experience than someone that has went through a certification class because you can have all the classes in the world and still have zero experience. Some people might even learn better diving in head first.

To answer the questions you asked though **pushes the soap box back in the corner** lol. We give our probies a crash course whenever we issue their gear to them. We'll let em work car fires, woods fires, and such. If they want to do interior attack on structures they have to complete, at minimum, the state fire academys volunteer certification course (53 hours). We actually require that this class is done within a year of your "hire" date. If not their membership gets terminated. We have this rule in effect due to the chances it can affect grants and our chief writes 3 to 4 a year. This doesn't mean you have to be a frontline entry firefighter. We just want everyone to have a feel of some of the stuff you could possibly encounter. I believe our system is fair, however I am also a firm believer that there is no such thing as too much training. Some people take the vol cert and you never see them at another class. If you can learn one thing out of any class that you take, then it was benificial for you to take it.

FYI: My coworker/best friends name is Jeremy Bell lol

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Permalink Reply by Dustin J. Millis on June 11, 2009 at 2:52am

''Oh we havent been training they just showed us how to use the turnout and scba and thats it we just go to the fire scene and grab a line and learn as we go.' hmmm... doesnt sound too safe. Hands on experience is by far the best teacher however the fireground is not a place where you want mistakes made.

When my dept. votes on new members, they are issued a full set of gear and a pager. The gear is for class/training only and the pager is only so they can respond to the station and run the radio. All new ff's must attend and complete Indiana's Mandatory firefighter training and also have a CPR/AED cert before responding to ANY type of call. The new ff's are also not allowed to display blue lights on their vehicles until they are cleared for calls. No sense in speeding to the station simply to run the radio. They go through a station/truck orintation as well as various additional trainings with our training officer as well as the bi-monthly trainings of the dept.

Weve had alot of success with this system. The new recruits learn all the "book stuff" in their mandatory class as well as gain some practical skills. The skills they dont do at class, we make up at the station. The ff's still get the hands on training, just not at an actual fire.

When their training is complete and they are allowed to respond, the ff's have a solid knowledge of what their duties are no matter what type of incident we are responding to. Guidance is still needed of course but at least they know which end of the axe to hold lol.

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Permalink Reply by ashfire on June 11, 2009 at 9:40am

In our county the new members must have a background check done through lawenforcement channels. Then they must have a physical done. They are issue a ID number and and sent to a county volunteer training class to learn about Infectious control, the departments makeup and operations and cpr.
Then they are issued turnout gear and must attend firefighter one class and EMS training.
They go from wearing a red helmet to yellow to complete their training
For some departments they could look into training the trainer for their department through the state training agency. Then what could be done is to start training classes in their station and invite others from other stations for the classes. We had in station classes done by trainers from the state training agency come in and got all our training that way without traveling outside our area.
There are a few classes that will require going to a training site or build a training site in a county for all the departments to use or build one in your departments backyard.

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Permalink Reply by Knightlite on June 11, 2009 at 10:20am

In our Department, all new firefighters are called “Apprentices.” We do issue them gear, but we take the shields off their helmets so everyone knows they are Apprentices. They are also issued a high band pager. They can respond to calls, but generally are told to hang back to watch other more experience firefighters operate.

Traditionally, our Apprentices have a minimum 6 month probationary period, during which they can respond to calls, but don’t enjoy the benefits of being a member.

During this period they have to attend a number of drills where the Chief goes over each piece of apparatus with them. In addition, our Chief is a certified instructor. He teaches in-house Fire Fighter 1 about twice a year. The Apprentices attend, as well as volunteers from neighboring towns. This is a great convenience to our new members. You can’t get any easier than taking a class at the firehouse, when other towns have to send their new members to area fire schools or other departments like ours.

To make things easier all our new members can get free copies of my Fire Fighter I/II Study Helper software to help them study for their written tests. So, between the in-house Fire 1 class, and my software, our members have a pretty easy time getting their certifications.

In Connecticut, it does help if we make it a little easier for them. I believe the new Fire Fighter 1 course is an additional 40 hours, when you add the HazMat information from the new Essentials text. Thats almost 200 hours of training. Add NIMS, OSHA, and other required training, and its amazing that you can attract anyone to do this work.

Once they complete their Fire 1 course, have attended all the drills required to become a member, and have served as an Apprentice for at least 6 months, then they can become full members. The membership votes on the Apprentice, and the firefighter will stand at a meeting and get sworn in by our Secretary.

Although we try to make it as easy as possible for new members, the system by design, is difficult. The system will weed out those who are not dedicated to fulfilling all the requirements. The end result is, we have a firehouse full of well trained firefighters, all minimally trained at the Fire 1 level.

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Permalink Reply by Anthony on June 11, 2009 at 12:42pm

I am new to my local volunteer Dept, however I do have A1, B1, B2, advanced emergency 1st aid and Cpr, along with several other coarses. I was kinda just expected to show up at a seen. No matter how much training you have I feel that hands on is always the best. The traing is there if I need it however, having the same schedule as everyone else is not always easy. There are times when I can only be at the hall once a month. Although , I hold a valid fire fighter cirtificate, My traing is all marine based, and there is a difference. We usually have unlimited water supply , and large amounts of hazardous matterials on board at all times. Air lifts are usually in the traing and not first responders or EMS. Traing is important however you will only walk away with what you want to get out of it. I myself am better with hands on, just put me in the situation. With the exception on a structure fire (search) , this should be left uo to the more experienced. I prefer to assist. rather than be on the advance attack team.

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Permalink Reply by CHRIS on June 11, 2009 at 9:51pm

ff1 must be completed before entering a structure fire

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Permalink Reply by Robert Owens on June 11, 2009 at 10:17pm

We take them from "once upon a time"....to "happily ever after" and every where in between....you can never stop training and everyday you should train on something even if its just talking things out around the kitchen table.

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Permalink Reply by Cassie on June 12, 2009 at 12:27am

I am on an all volunteer dept. Our district is south of the main town and includes a fair amount of subdivisions, farms, and a few industrial buildings. So we're borderline "rural", I guess.

As far as training, this is how we do it. We don't get many new people at a time, and we have a fair amount of people who have passed all the minimum requirements, so each new person has to go through all the tests, but they do it at their own pace.

We train every Tuesday night for about 3.5 hours. Dinner is included afterwards. We have 2 training buildings behind the station - more like 2 story metal/concrete sheds.

Minimum Requirements (to get a pager):

1. Pass PPE/SCBA - each must be put on in under a minute. They'll be taught/timed by an available firefighter.

All the below tactics must be passed under a given timeline, a "coach" (designated veteran) will follow and observe, then determine if the newbie needs to run another rep or can move on to the next tactic.

2. Offensive Fire Attack, First Floor - Tools. The newbie + 2 veterans. Jump off engine, put on SCBA, get fan/tools, bring to door, help charge hose, do 360° and turn off utilities, vent at back door, return to front door, place fan, make entry, search, locate "fire", pull 4x4 sheet of sheetrock, continue search back to door, exit, return to engine.

3. Offensive Fire Attack - First Floor - Nozzle. The newbie + 2 veterans. Jump off engine, put on SCBA, flake hose, charge hose (with assistance of crew), do 360° and turn off utilities, return to front door, make entry, search, call out all windows/corners/furniture, locate "fire", mime spraying water, continue search back to door, exit, return to engine.

4. Patient Rescue - First Floor - Tools, Nozzle. The newbie + 2 veterans. Same as the two above, except instead of locating "fire," locate a patient (we use a fellow firefighter, not a dummy), Tools positions patient, Tools and Nozzle use a two-man drag method, return to door, exit, Tools and Nozzle lift patient, drag to Triage at the engine.

5. Burn Test - First Floor - Tools, Nozzle. In an room of metal walls and concrete floor, fill one corner with flammable material. The newbie + 2 veterans. Same as drills 1 and 2, however, an actual fire is lit in the room by another firefighter. Crew locates fire and puts it out.

If the newbie passes all these tactics, they are given a pager and allowed to respond to all calls.

Training continues with "Enter, Search, & Vent" tactic (for quickly searching a room in a house, via window entry), "Second Story Patient Rescue", and "Roof Venting."

People also rotate through learning to drive the engines/tenders, operate the pumps, and how to use the other equipment (e.g. the Jaws and struts) on the engine, practice our wildland drills, etc.

We also hire a teacher and run an EMT class once a year.

It's a nice method because it allows people to train at their own pace. It didn't come naturally to me and it took a while for me to get the hang of things. Also, it allows us to accept new people at any time.

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Permalink Reply by Jeremy Bell on June 12, 2009 at 2:36am

Thanks for the replies.I think it is cool to be able to see how different depts. operate their training regiments.There is alot to learn from one another on here and i hope that maybe some of these depts. that dont really teach the probies can gather some ideas from my post.Stay safe brothers.

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Permalink Reply by Anthony on June 12, 2009 at 12:18pm

I was told we need level 1 to enter a structure fire to, but the common problem seems to be there are not always enough trained on the scene at any one time. Especially , on the calls during the day. So, what do you do?

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Permalink Reply by Cassie on June 12, 2009 at 3:26pm

Do you have any nearby depts. that can help? My dept. has mutual aid agreements with most, if not all the local fire departments, including the career city dept. Most of the fires I've been on have been in other districts.

For a big structure fire 2-4 departments may actually be paged -- even more for incidents at the airport, or gas explosions/fire like the one that destroyed part of downtown Bozeman. We have pre-set run cards for the type of incident and alarm level. So, as it gets upgraded, more departments come type thing. That way, if too few people show, requests for more can be made.

Also, have any active recruiting attempts been made? There may be more people in the district who would be willing to join and volunteer, perhaps some who could respond during the day... but no one's ever asked them to do it.

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Permalink Reply by Padre Pete on June 12, 2009 at 11:49pm

Jeremy, Getting someone on board who is passionate about the job and can inspire learning is how you train us. That seems to be the greater issue here. I acknowledge that most carrier firefighters get more on the job experience than than most volunteers, but you might acknowledge the volunteer departments that have fairly extensive training programs that qualify them for the same jobs. On those occassions when our EMS service is interupted by a fire, it is always fought by the same few firefighters. There are no other shifts to share the work load. For 48 years, that I know of, my village/rural volunteer department has had 2 hr. drills every other Tues. at 19:30 and every other Sunday at 9:30. Low by some standars. High by others. We always run out of year before we run out of topics. All new members are issued pagers and all gear required to make them fire scene compliant immediatly. Show up, stay out of the way and be available to your mentor or to anyone who may want your assistance. Nobody fights any fire without NYS Firefighter 1, NYS Mask Confidence and the NYS Firefighter Safety and Survival courses. All are among the dozens of others, offered regulary right here in this county, by state fire instructors. The final prerequisite to masking up is the agreement among our officers that he/she has had sufficient team experience with them at our own interior attack drills. When the mother is screaming "Save my baby" and fireguy is thinking "Golly, I'm only a volunteer", its too late. He has put us to shame and given ammunition to those who find it easy to demean us. Now just might be the right time for someone on a community and county level to start kicking ass about serious training in these few departments you've come across. Why dont you right up a job description and sell it along with your resume to the people in charge? Win-win.

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