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Sorry you can't drive your fire truck back to the firehouse.
NYS has apparently came up with a new DMV law about 4 years ago and forgot to tell anybody.. So now you can't drive your fire truck back from a fire call or go to a parade unless you have a CDL.
http://www.timesunion.com/AspStories/story.asp?storyID=771996&c...
Our station may have to go "out of service" until we can match this requirement although NYS Association of Fire Chiefs think they have control over all of the volunteer stations. We do not have the funds or the manpower to meet this requirement. Our Governor is too busy with cuts to the budget to tackle this problem at this time.
So what do you think.
http://www.timesunion.com/AspStories/story.asp?storyID=771996&c...
Our station may have to go "out of service" until we can match this requirement although NYS Association of Fire Chiefs think they have control over all of the volunteer stations. We do not have the funds or the manpower to meet this requirement. Our Governor is too busy with cuts to the budget to tackle this problem at this time.
So what do you think.
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Rom919 on
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Well your five well trained firefighters, need the 10 inexperienced ones to help pick-up, direct the traffic, oh yeah.. move the engine or ladder around, and do the everyday stuff on the fire ground. Well I can see where you are coming from, but, you said it yourself, why can't they come up with the funds to get the CDL, well what other things can they come up with... why not the fuel to get them down the road. Just another requirement to be a firefighter, get a CDL, and pay for it also.. .. What a new recruitment tool.... should bring them in by the basket full... I know that it is a BIG TRUCK we drive.. but I have already give in to EVOC training to be mandated before you drive. Your recruitment pool is probably much bigger than mine.... I live in a Hamlet of 200..... which one do you want to ask first.. LT
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Permalink Reply by Tony P on
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Here you are Romulus:
1. How has the addition of new requirements added to your rolls of membership at your fire station? and 2. I don't mind having educated firefighters around me... but at 3 A. M., I would rather have the manpower...
1. I'd say the increase in training requirements has had little effect. Some people are scared away, but they're probably the ones who think being a firefighter gives them 'glory' but blanch at the idea of having to work - I'm not interested in having them around. Other people think the traiing is a good idea - they're the ones I want on the fireground with me.
2. At 03:00 I want trained people on the fireground with me thanks. In fact at any time I want trained people with me!
Here we can easily document cases of people who've been around for years leaving because of 'new' mandatory training requirements. This happened some years ago. The training requiremeents were put into place to try to ensure that everyone on the fireground has a good theoretical and practical grounding before they even get there. People who'd 'been around forever' were not required to undergo the training course. Theyhad the option of sitting and talking through the requirements with a trtainer/assessor and would only have to study those parts of the training that they didn't know. Things that may have been added because of research into injuries and deaths. Most either went through the training or what some viewed as the less threatening option. Others thought the whole thing was rubbish and refused. After several years those last mentioned found themselves not being allowed to respond.
To again respond to the CDL part of your original post, why should firefighters be allowed to take a vehicle on the road in an emergency when they aren't allowed to drive it at any other time? Driving lights and sirens is more dangerous than normal driving, it is no place for a driver who hasn't been trained. I fail to see why there should be any exemption allowed. Here there isn't, if you don't have the correct licence, you don't drive. If that means the truck doesn't roll, then it doesn't roll - proper planning would have people trained to drive.
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Permalink Reply by PFC Harmon on
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I agree that mandating CDL's is a recruiting hassle. Does your department pay for firefighter one or two classes or EMT classes? In your EVOC class did you cover things like air brakes, stopping distance compared to the speed and weight on the vehicle, how to drain the air tanks, how to check air brakes or what to do when your air brakes fail. Their is a lot of extra stuff and driving habits on commercial vehicles. Do you want an inexperienced driver on the same road as your wife and kids?
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Thanks Tony, glad to see I'm not the only one.
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It goes down to manpower.. on the fire ground.. I guess you can have mutual aid come in from all over and strip them of their basic protection, this way I can have my well educated firefighters I need on the fire ground.. Now I am not saying that basic training and what you need today to go inside or stay outside isn't required, but, how far do we go... I know for some (the union firefighters), it is to go all the way till we drive them out... and we will get a paid/well educated/ and trained fire dept in there. Great... how do you fit that in with a Hamlet of 200, and cover the area. Now I have firefighters that are "trained" in interior firefighting and firefighters that are trained in picking up the mess on the fire ground, traffic control, and yes... they drive the trucks... I don't just throw a kid in the seat and say drive... duh... and to think so... is your foolishness.. But to demand another requirement of a CDL... well, some of these kids, drive farm machinery that makes our BIG TRUCKS look like tiny Tonka trucks and have been doing it since they where 10 or 12 years old..
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The insurance companies and the state put on the EVOC training here and yes, again, you are assuming that we just throw a man in the seat and go.. We do a lot of on road driving with the fire fighter and if it is deem that the fire fighter is not comfortable or capable to drive... then the fire fighter doesn't drive.
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Does your department pay for firefighter one or two classes or EMT classes? In your EVOC class did you cover things like air brakes, stopping distance compared to the speed and weight on the vehicle, how to drain the air tanks, how to check air brakes or what to do when your air brakes fail. Their is a lot of extra stuff and driving habits on commercial vehicles. Do you want an inexperienced driver on the same road as your wife and kids? . No one said you throw a kid behind the seat. As for machinary I assume you mean big tractors, combines and high boys? Do these have the same mechanics as a commercial truck? Keep your untrained workers but also get some certified drivers would that work?
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And do you have somebody qualified to make an assessment as to another persons driving skills?
I was assuming nothing. I was giving my opinion on the matter and stating what the law here demands. Nobody here drives a fire truck if they don't have the required endorsement/licence. We are not above the law. And I bvelieve that is how it should be.
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How is your recruitment status in a town with a population of 1,500. Do a comparison with a hamlet of 200, what is your annual budget, compare it to $16,000 per year. Should we tell the old lady down the road... sorry we can't respond, due to no CDL drivers around.
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Sorry if it sounds like I am making a personal attack or assuming I'm not. You stated earlier that your EVOC was "in house" A state instructor is not "in house". Do you have a certified instructor go over commercial vehicles. How much does a class b CDL cost in your state?
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Our recruitment is down we have 15 active members, I would trust them to do anything. Our budget is just 20,000 our population is around 4,000 and our area is 25 to 30 square miles. I would apoligize to the old lady and say the law is the law, I am sorry but we need money for training and CDL's
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EVOC is provided by NYS Fire and also by individual Insurance Companies. I am in total agreement that EVOC be mandated and it is, even in our small station, before you drive any emergency vehicle. I just believe we must use our common sense and stop assuming that we mandate everything. I hate this statement... but before this Federal change that was adopted by NYS... there wasn't even a requirement to have a license in NYS... Now that is wrong.. but it is now 2009..... how many years prior to this have these drivers, including your father, and your grandfather been driving without a CDL... What do you tell them... GET OUT..
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