Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Jolande on February 15, 2009 at 7:35am

Overhere in our FD, you MUST have some several yrs beeing a 'normal' FF before becomming a driver.. then you MUST KNOW all about the truck and it's pumps..before you are able to drive..
So I totally agree!! :)

I hope to become a driver myself in a few yrs!

Permalink Reply by Dale Barker on February 16, 2009 at 9:34pm

Our bylaws state you must be at least 21 and have completed EVOC before you can drive the equipment. If you plan on driving the Engines you must complete the Pump Operations Course first. Our theory is if you can't run the back of the truck you shouldn't be driving the truck.

Permalink Reply by Dale Barker on February 16, 2009 at 9:48pm

This needs to be added also: On CDL Requirements

In the Fall of 2008, at the request of local fire departments the Suffolk County Department of Fire, Rescue and Emergency Services contacted the New York State Department of Motor Vehicle to ask what impact the 2005 law had on CDL requirements for the fire service. The response from DMV to the Commissioner makes it clear; “During non-emergency operation however, the police or fire vehicle will be considered to be a Commercial Motor Vehicle (CMV) if it falls within one or more of the definitions of CMV found in section 501-a(4)(a) and a CDL would be required to operate the vehicle.” Most engines, heavy rescue, and aerial apparatus would qualify as a CMV. Therefore, as of the passage of the law in 2005 CDL’s have been required for any fire apparatus that would meet the requirement of a CMV for parades, drills, building inspections, public education events, returning from calls or any other purpose except driving to an emergency. The problems this creates are too numerous to mention."

Just remember this is not a recommendation this is a law in NY state. As much as we disagree with it.

Permalink Reply by PFC Harmon on February 18, 2009 at 8:57pm

How can you disagree with that law? I know it's aggravating for volunteers to get their CDL's, but they need all the training they can get. I have seen a lot of firefighters that have been through EVOC but don't know how to handle a commercial vehicle. Why should someone that drives a commercial vehicle every day under normal circumstances be required to have CDL's but a man that drives a truck once a week under stress and adrenaline be exempt? Stay safe

Permalink Reply by Bobby on March 3, 2009 at 6:16pm

When you start on our dept you go on probation for 3 or 6 months (can't remember which) in which you don't go interior, you don't get light and siren in your pov, and you don't drive a truck. After probation you still don't drive a truck till you are signed off buy the training officer. even then you don't get to drive to the scene, but you are allowed to drive back to station, after you AND all officers are comfortable with the person driving the apparatus that you can drive it to the call. And most of all you do NOT drive faster than your comfort level

Permalink Reply by Mark Klaene on March 7, 2009 at 6:03pm

There is a huge difference between having a license and being proficient. I run on a lot of CMV calls and trust me there are a lot of drivers out there that do not know what they are doing, yet they have the license. Requiring CDL's does nothing, requiring training and proof of proficiency is worth everything. And fire apparatus , especially running code, are a lot different then most CMV's and a standard CDL doesn't address this deficiency.

Here NM requires a Class E license (private Exempt vehicles over 25,000 lbs) to drive large trucks and ambulances . To get it requires nothing more than a piece of paper signed by the supervisor. It is 100% useless (unless you get in to an accident). Currently the chief (by default) holds the responsibility to ensure his members are proficient. One ^&*( of a lot of responsibility on the volunteer chief. As for me I require ; driving with a officer or designee, driving history check, and the Class E license, this gets you to drive non-emergency. Then to drive with lights/sirens I require; driving history under non-emergency conditions, my EVO course (based on VFIS program), passing that test plus passing driving with an officer or designee. My big tanker requires the most road training along with understanding of air brakes, retarder brakes, S-cams etc... We run refresher training every 3 years or so . Finally I also take every complaint about someone's driving seriously. Occasionally having to suspend their driving privilage. I do not require they drive around in a parking lot around a bunch of cones, our test is on the road.

I would love a simulator but it would have to be one that uses or simulates my trucks not other types. But they are expensive, I have suggested this to our county training center but no movement yet.

Permalink Reply by Bobby Hill on March 7, 2009 at 7:46pm

Check out "Getting To Calls". That is an exable of the lack of understanding what is involved when you get behind the wheel of a fire fighting vehicle. Vehicle training in my department is takin very seriously. You have to attend drivers training both in house and a cert. givin by (for us) OSU Fire training. You still are not suppose to drive untill your first year is up. Can't all ways help how drive there but at least we try.

Permalink Reply by Dave on March 23, 2009 at 7:55am

Operation and maintenance of pumps and equipment on the truck. As well as maintenance of the truck itself. We have truck checks that rotate to different personel each month. This is to familiarize everybody with every truck, IE where is equipment, what equipment is on it, etc.

Permalink Reply by Chad Furr on March 24, 2009 at 6:59pm

We have no formal requirred training here. As in a state ran clas or anything like that. we do howeverhave to go out with the chief and drive an obsticle course and prove we know what we are doing. At the end of each course we have to pump water to various hoses. No good in knowing how to drive a truck and not use it when you get there is the motto.

Permalink Reply by chris r brannon on March 25, 2009 at 9:38pm

BE IN THE DEPT FOR 1 YEAR IF U WANNA DRIVE OK THATS COOL BE BUT BE FAMILAR WITH UR PUMP SYSTEM THAT WAY U CAN DRIVE TO THE SCENE AND ALSO HELP THAT DEPT THAT WAY IF ONE OF THEIR MEN NEED TO GO IN A HOUSE OR INDUSTRY U CAN CAN PUMP

Permalink Reply by Oldman on March 26, 2009 at 9:54pm

My department has a progressive training program where prospective operators start with the smaller apparatus and work their way to the Engines and Tankers. All operators cannot be less than 21, with a clean driving record. All operators must have EVOC which I teach in house. An EVOC refresher is required every 2 years. All driver training must be done with officer or engineer operator (EO), in the right seat.

Boosters and ambulances
A total of 8 hrs drive time and 5 emergency runs, tested knowledge of all operational aspects of the vehicle. pump ops, tools and equipment knowledge. In addition, they must show knowledge of the communications systems and service area. The booster operator must also have a minimum of 3 hrs. off road driving.

Engine operators
Must meet above requirements and complete pumps ops. They are required to have minimum of 10 hrs driving time, and a minimum of 15 emergency runs. Prior to release, they must complete and pass a drivers test for a Class B CDL. Training for the tanker has been put on hold until we receive our new one in May. All EO's and officers will have to qualify on driving and operations on this much larger apparatus.

Permalink Reply by Wes Smith on April 2, 2009 at 8:22am

I'm a certified Evoc Instuctor and this subject is a priority. We have combined evoc with Smith System. Smith system was designed for the Trucking Industry. It is a Wonderful training. It all about defensive driving. Everytime that apparatus leaves the bay it isn't always code 3. We do more driving non code 3 than we do code 3. I'm really trying to get the word out and start travelling and teaching evoc. So if any dept you no of is in need of it let me know. Also Andrea, From the top of the chain to the bottom chief officers and line officers have to enforce the policies. It starts at the top

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