The Social Network & Community JUST for Firefighters
Cadet's or Trained Firefighters ?
I have a question should 16 and 17 year old cadet's be allowed on large grass fire where multiple agency's have been activated ? This is some thing that we are having go on in Torrance County. We have a large active fire going on right now. So question is Cadet's or Trained Firefighter.
Replies to This Discussion
-
Permalink Reply by Donny on
-
Oh ok but are they allowed to be on the front line's in the heat and confusion that may happen ok kewl
-
Permalink Reply by ANDREW PARKS on
-
yes they are allowed on the front line but like i said only for grass fires and the fires that we get in my area are not much we are a real rural area
-
-
We are too and the grass fire fire we have going on is in an area where when the winds kick up the fire runs wild.hat is why i am tryng to find out from everyone.
-
-
that is what i think but do you think they should be on the front line's fighting the fire and not in a safe training area they do not have superviser while they are out there hey just go and his dad does not thnk about him losing his son that is where i am coming from.
-
Permalink Reply by Aric Stewart on
-
hey Donny i think that you should be as careful as possible and also inform them that you don't want them with you on the front lines, If the Chief tells you that you have to take them you can always refuse. I don't think that they should be on the front lines, In Texas you can not participate in live fire operations until you have 70 hours of training and the state says that it is all legitimate. Best of luck to ya guy Stay Safe
-
Permalink Reply by Captain Chaos on
-
In my opinion, not only should they not be allowed on a "Large" grass fire, but they shouldn't be allowed near any sized fire until it's out and in the latter stages of mop up. I have no doubt that there are some jr.'s that think they know a lot, and maybe they do. But 150 hours of training and a desire to hang around a Fire Station does not make them Firefighters.
I put together the Explorer post in my Division of my Dept several years ago. Trained them personally. Had several that were extremely sharp. Would I have let any of them on a fire line, absolutely not. Even though some of them were over 18 years old, they were not allowed to by our SOP's. They were not paid, not covered by Workers Comp., had no death or disability benefits.
So, here is what it boils down to... If your Department is that strapped for manning or they are the only people you can get, then, they (your Dept.) should have to be responsible for those they put in harms way. If your City, County or whatever agency refuses to protect these Jr.'s, then they should never see any active fire. But let me also say that even if they were protected, as long as they were called Jr., I would only allow them to have a support role on any type of incident where there was an IDLH situation.
FWIW Almost Gone
-
Permalink Reply by Greenman on
-
It's a question of LIABILTY for the department, as well as the individual who allowed the underage Cadet/Junior/Explorer on the fire line.
Just about everywhere in the U.S. a person under the age of 18 isn't allowed to use a Hobart mixer at the Pizza Hut, let alone man hose line, or work a fire line.
How much can your department afford to pay out if that Cadet/Junior/Explorer becomes a LODD? Will your insurance actually cover you if the individual(s) who died were still minors? Will their family(ies) be eligible for their child's death benefit without a six-year court battle?
We all know 16 year-olds who take their role seriously and have all the skills necessary, but that is not the point! What can your department do with a $1 million, or more? What if it has to pay a family a $1 million court settlement because you allowed a minor to act as a firefighter? How does that help your community?
When I was an Explorer, we had several Wildland Conflagration (I grew up in Southern California) and there were plenty of jobs I performed which kept me off the fire line, but definitely contributed to the effort. In fact my high school was a major staging area for wildfires two years in a row, and I manned the canteen, issued gear, ground guided vehicles to parking spaces, and lots of others jobs which needed to be done.
Bottom line is, until are "legal" in your state to perform as a Firefighter, they need to be off the line.
-
Permalink Reply by Spanner 122 on
-
Why should the Fire Cadet program be any different than the Air/Sea/Army Cadet program? I love these programs, the kids (and yes, until 18, they are technically kids) are taught survival skills, firing air rifles, drill, they can fly gliders at 16, single engine at 18, etc, etc... but we would never consider sending them to war, right? These activities are all done away from any training bases, they have their own facilities.
Maybe there are some older teenagers who could handle the pressure and workload (those who can keep their room clean and an A average), but for the safety and well being of all cadets, no, they should never be on the front lines and for the safety of the other firefighters, they should never operate the pump. If a situation got out of control, would they have the sense and composure to handle it. Some, maybe; all, no.
Why put these young lives at an elevated risk, especially when there is no insurance or protection for them? There were two stories in particular of juniors dying on the way to a fire, one was riding his bike to the station and was struck by a car, the other was allowed to respond in a two seat tanker with two others, no seat, no belt, tanker went off the road. Two families destroyed forever, no glory in that kids.
-
Permalink Reply by Art "ChiefReason" Goodrich on
-
Spanner:
The two you refer to are Chris Kangas of Pennsylvania and AnnDee Huber from Newcastle, Wyoming.
TWO VERY EXCELLENT REASONS TO KEEP CADETS/EXPLORERS/JUNIORS-WHATEVER YOU WISH TO CALL THEM-ON THE SIDELINES UNTIL THEY ARE "QUALIFIED" AND CERTIFIED AS FIREFIGHTERS.
In my mind, they won't even light the grill until they have passed to "probationary firefighter" status and then, it will be under the watchful eye of a senior jake.
Wise up, folks.
Fires are for real.
Trix are for kids.
TCSS.
Art
-
Permalink Reply by jdstamp on
-
Just finished a Wildland fire training class, in the Incident Responce Pocket Guide, on page four there is a list of common denominators of fire behavior on tragedy fires (Injuries and Fatalities)
1) On relativly small fires or deceptivly quiet areas of large fires
2) In relativly light fuels, such as grass, herbs, and light brush
WHY would you put a young persons life on the line, the fire services geatest asset in a position where it has been DOCUMENTED there are serious life safety concerns even for a experienced firefighter.
The only place for a cadet or other non-certified firefighter is in the safe zone
nowhere near any danger (this includes being by the hose lines coming off an engine)
© 2024 Created by Firefighter Nation WebChief.
Powered by
