The Social Network & Community JUST for Firefighters
ISO Considering Change, input wanted.
I’ve been invited to sit in on a discussion, along with several others, with ISO. Purpose here is to brain storm ideas for changes in their rating system. Since my brain is only partly cloudy today, I’ll entertain ideas from the members. Hear is your chance, I’ll pass along any good ideas.
Replies to This Discussion
-
Permalink Reply by Ben Waller on
-
How does that rate reduction list line up with the statement that local insurance companies, not ISO, setting the rates?
Does this mean that the above list is valid only for one specific department?
-
Permalink Reply by Frosty on
-
The list is an average. The homeowner gets to shop around different companies for the best deal.
-
-
Ben, You are not following me on this...
Three hours of training. Split into three one hour blocks. Not the same training
three times.
No arguement from me on things like hose jackets, thats the kind of thing I would like to get changed.
Some non-fire department fire protection systems are rated - such as the municipal water supply. Some are not in all states, but sure should be - the point of this thread.
Actual community fire loss used to be rated, and departments that wanted to when they changed that could stay with the old system, such as the City of Saint Louis. I am not sure about why it was changed, but I suspect most departments across the country did not have valid fire loss information to judge from.
-
Permalink Reply by Trainer on
-
Ben, the last time I wanted to see the affects of a class change was to go to my local insurance provider. You can pick any structure you want, I used my shop, and have him calculate a premium, most have a computer program to fill in, there are many variables, square footage, type of const, feet from hydrant, heating system, sprinklers, power supply, to name just a few. Of these many questions that were asked, they usually don’t ask this as no one knows but us, is ISO class for which he has a list of all depts. All we had to do was substitute different numbers to put a dollar value on class change. Use 1 residential and 1 commercial and figure from there, it’s rough but should give you some idea. This may be the only way to figure this for you, way to many variables between insurances companies and geographic areas.
-
Permalink Reply by Tony P on
-
Fascinating reading! I'm soooo glad we don't have anything like the US ISO to worry about!
-
-
Frosty,
You are not following me on the training issue;
I was not talking about doing the same training three times.
I was talking about doing three different one-hour training topics.
If you do those three topics in a three-hour, consecutive time block, ISO gives you full credit for it.
If you do the exact same training in seperate one-hour blocks, ISO won't count it at all.
If you have a company that gets a run every 2.5 hours, the only way they are going to get ISO-compliant training is to be out of service while they train. The result is that ISO's grading system essentially forces you to take a busy company completely out of service to train. That creates longer response times to the busiest part(s) of your district, and it doesn't make sense.
ISO defines "company drill" as a "half day" of training. A "half day" company drill is a minimum of three hours long.
And...ISO's focus on property protection (and protecting the insurance companies' bottom line) can be read from their own web pages
Here: http://www.iso.com/Research-and-Analyses/Studies-and-Whitepapers/IS...
"ISO reviewed the cost of fire claims per thousand dollars worth of insured property by PPC for communities around the country. The two graphs below — based on five years of data for homeowners and commercial property insurance — show that the communities with better classifications experienced noticeably lower fire losses than the communities with poorer classifications.
The dollar value of a better PPC varies by state. But on average across the country, the cost of fire losses for homeowners policies in communities graded Class 9 is 65 percent higher than in communities graded Class 5.* If a community improved from Class 9 to Class 5, homeowners could expect their premiums for fire insurance to drop substantially."
and here: http://www.iso.com/Research-and-Analyses/Studies-and-Whitepapers/IS...
"FIRE It's the largest single cause of property loss in the United States. In the last decade, fires have caused direct losses of more than $120 billion and countless billions more in related costs."
I noticed that you didn't respond to my comment about June 18, 2007, either.
Ben
Ben
-
-
Interesting, our local insurance companies won't give us any information on this, they claim "trade secret" just like ISO does.
I also am waiting to hear from anyone who has seen the actual scoring system used by ISO when they come to grade you. The ones in my area who were recently graded tell me that the ISO grader guarded the contents of that book as if his job and financial future depended on it. Apparently, the graders have to sign a secrecy/non-disclosure agreement. If that is the case, then ISO is not fully transparent and they do keep secrets on how to improve your ratings from the fire department.
In fact, that's why consulting firms like ISO Slayer have a business to begin with. It's ridiculous that you have to hire a consultant to tell you how to improve your ISO ratings. That wouldn't be necessary if ISO was fully transparent, or if the current grading schedule made sense.
-
-
Why should just CAFS recieve additional credit? How about "Class A Foam" recieving credit?
-
-
Ben I can only say, I have not had that problem. I have a book, if I can find it that gives point values for each item, I’ll do want I can to try to locate. I don’t have the one for water supply, town maintenance guy has that. I do remember you only have control of 50% of the points, 40% is water supply and 10% is dispatch.
-
Permalink Reply by Art "ChiefReason" Goodrich on
-
-
Permalink Reply by Oldman on
-
At first, my initial response would be , kill them all, except with my oldtimers kicking in, I probably wouldn't remember it.
My personal experience with ISO is what Ben said."that means that ISO is being VERY inconsistent in how they apply the rating schedule".
A neighboring department underwent a survey and received total credit for communications. My department underwent a survey, and did not receive the same credit, even though we are dispatched by the exact same center.
When we had our survey done, the examiner would not allow credit for automatic mutual aid as "ISO didn't allowed it anymore". Meanwhile, 3 other departments in the area received credit for it. In addition, after our classification was released a few months later, the Vice President of ISO said in an interview with a major trade publication, that automatic mutual aid is one way smaller departments (like mine) can fulfill manpower on first due, and ISO does give credit for automatic mutual aid.
Can we appeal? Certainly, if we want to risk receiving a lower score than the first. No I'm not talking about retribution, but the fact that another examiner may give less credit for appliances than the original examiner did. A case of we could win the battle, but lose the war.
Minimum equipment requirements could definitely be changed. Requiring cellar nozzles in my area where two cows whizzing at the same time causes flooding, is kinda ridiculous. There are no basements or cellars here or within 50 miles at least.
Allowing credit for apparatus which serve two purposes. In our area, the lack of hydrants means we rely on tankers. Many departments now utilize pumper/tanker combinations which fulfill either role as needed. Credit for one or the other function only. Even though they are more efficient for a lot of departments you loose points from both if you wish to claim them in combination.
If we must play by their rules, at least make the rules consistent and fair.
-
-
There is some stupid stuff in the dispatch segment, like proper phone book numbers and where you find them. If my memory serves me right, the automatic MA only counts if it’s within 5 miles might be wrong on distance. Art has found a good page, tried it and it works, looks to be the info I was going to look for; Thanks CR!
© 2024 Created by Firefighter Nation WebChief.
Powered by
