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Women in the fire service(honest opinion)
Hola,
Just wanted to get some honest feed back about how men feel about having women serve as FF. Please be very honest! The reason for this is:
1. I have witnessed society feels women can't do this job- we are to fragile , etc.
2. People think women that work around a bunch of men must be easy or having relations with at least one of the them
3. Sexual harrassment issues arise more often
4. Some men have trouble taking orders from a woman (or vice versa)
These are just a few of the things I have seen or heard about.. Please share y you feel this way
Just wanted to get some honest feed back about how men feel about having women serve as FF. Please be very honest! The reason for this is:
1. I have witnessed society feels women can't do this job- we are to fragile , etc.
2. People think women that work around a bunch of men must be easy or having relations with at least one of the them
3. Sexual harrassment issues arise more often
4. Some men have trouble taking orders from a woman (or vice versa)
These are just a few of the things I have seen or heard about.. Please share y you feel this way
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by FETC on
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Age, Sex, Race does not matter AS LONG AS EVERYBODY MEETS THE SAME STANDARD. When you lower the standards for anybody, then you have a problem.
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Permalink Reply by Randy on
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I have meet some real qualified women in the service ...and then some that would like to think they are..If they can do it great if not move on!!!
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Permalink Reply by Jason Edwards on
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*sigh* I hate to get into this... but I have a couple of great female friends that are firefighters and in my opinion - more qualified than the majority of the men they work with. Having said that, I also have some friends that aren't so great female additions to the department. I'd say for every two, I know about 10 that should find other work.
The problem is, when they aren't towing the line - no one is comfortable saying anything BECAUSE they are women (due to the fact that history has shown how quickly Americans will lawyer up if threatened). So, in training, when I am partnered with a female in the Denver drill and she can't boost my 220 pound Irish-American A** over the sill of that window, all that happens is the instructor sort of "moves on" to the next 2 people while everyone looks sideways at each other and says nothing. No one has the balls to pull that sister aside and try to figure out a way to help her find some use of body mechanics or whatever to get the job done.
Mainly because we'll get labeled (by that female) as sexist or whatever... No, really - we will... and have. Just a chance you take and if you're not dealing with a POS, she'll appreciate the insight and offer of help.
I can't blame them for trying to hold on to their livelihood - they got hired into this job and it is what they have chosen to do to support themselves and their children. I believe the system of hiring in many cases is totally unfair to the women who are being told they can perform this job because they executed a Physical Fitness portion of the hiring process which has been dumbed down to the point of totally ridiculous and leaves the candidate with the false impression that she is physically capable of performing what may (God Forbid) be a duty of hers one day - dragging a brother or sister the long way out of an IDLH environment.
A great perspective on this is found in the book "Fighting Fire" by Caroline Paul
You can get a copy cheap on Amazon here:
As for firehouse behavior... Come On! Use your head, a little courtesy and some common sense!!! If it bothers you - deal with it and move on! Don't go off the track for six months because you saw a naked breast on the TV screen when you came in from a run at 2 in the morning. On the flip side, If you know it bothers someone, respect their opinions and be reasonable enough to adjust your behavior or at least TALK about it.
That goes for MEN and for WOMEN (or Womyn - whatever) ha!
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Permalink Reply by Chad Eason on
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I do not have a problem with Women in the fire service as long as they are treated the same as the guys. We have had several females in our department over the years and currently have two that are in the department now. I would put them up against any man any day. I have seen what they can do and they are two of the best firefighters that I have.
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Permalink Reply by Dina Lynn on
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I am a female and I have no doubt in my mind that women can do this job! I remember when I was six years of age, my brothers car caught fire and I had my little emergency 51 fire hat on and my little ladder and took the garden hose and put out the fire. I know yall are laughing now. It was cute. When the firefighters arrived they smiled at me and with my little voice I said, I got it under control. The guys said, little lady, you would be a great little firefighter BUT we don't accept women. I said, EXCUSE ME, I DIDN'T HEAR YOU THHE FIRST TIME, WOULD YOU LIKE TO REPEAT YOURSELF? AND EVEN IF YOU DID REPEAT YOURSELF, I STILL WOULDN'T HEAR YA. Look, if we can bare children and carry a child around for 9 months, I think we qualify to become firefighters. This is just my feelings on the whole thing.
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Permalink Reply by Spanner 122 on
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I agree, not showing a woman what she is doing wrong because she is a woman is ridiculous. As is expecting that every woman is so litigious that she would sue over innocent comments or attempts to help her a better firefighter.
We're lucky, 12 female firefighters and only one who doesn't quite make the grade.
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Permalink Reply by Fire Capt. 1304 on
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I have no problem with women in the fire service. I think they are just as capable of doing this job as men are. Unfortunately we do have a couple of women on our department that have actually told us that the training we do "strains them and makes thier back hurt" (actual quote from one of the ladies). We were at the training tower and only practicing fire suppression. Like I said women in the fire service is great but it's not for everbody men and women alike.
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Permalink Reply by Jenny Holderby on
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You are right, there are those of both genders who need to find other work on both sides, the paid & the unpaid for various reasons. Some don't pay attention to the statistics & some just think "it will never happen to me" or "I'm only 30, I'm too young". Thats bull & we know it. IT can happen no matter what your age & thinking you don't apply is just silly.
ALL fire fighters, of both sexes should be taught the proper body mechanics when they aren't preforming a task properly for their sake & their team members. It is matter of safety for all envolved.
ALL women are created equal & some become fire fighters. However, I know women who have & will use the "discrimination" card to get what they want. I know good men who were passed over for officer positions because the 1 female candidate (who didn't have the years of service that many of them did & didn't score any higher on the test than the guys she was up against for the promotion) was able to get the officers position because she threatened to sue for discrimination.
NOW - How do you think the other guys felt when she was choosen over them? How much respect do you think she got? Not to mention the sentiment toward the Chief/union/Mayor or whom ever else was responsible for her promotion?
Of course not all of us would do that but there are those who would & have done in the past and probably in the future as well. The same goes for the non-paid female personnel who cry descrimination when we aren't given officers positions or when our training is in question or when we don't pull our weight as a VFD member because we think all we have to do is show up now & then & look pretty. Again, MOST of us would never do that but. . . unfortunately, it does happen. 90% of women are as good as 90% of the men. There is always the other 10% to consider. In short, those woman have done the rest of us no service.
When the guys hung up the Drager Girl poster, I hung the fire fighter hunks calendar across from it. Bless their hearts, they are men & some how looking @ pictures of half dressed women does something for them. I hung the calendar to make a point. Both came down with no fuss from anyone.
At this point in my life I KNOW that there is no point putting on a pack & dragging a line into a burning building when the younger, stronger men (or women) can be much more effective in that situation than I am. I'm not ready to give it up because I am VERY effective in other areas as a volunteer FF. But by the same token, I know several men who won't do it either.
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Permalink Reply by Alec Schiering on
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If a woman can start a K saw then seh is part of my crew. If she can't then she needs to not be in the business
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Right on, Kim. I do spend time with anyone having issues and attempt to help them find a way to perform whatever task we are working on... This happens to be where I encounter the most attitude. Women and fat guys.
As for the mandatory fitness requirement, CTFD has one in place but in order to enforce it - it would have to be enforced all the way to the top... where some of those aforementioned fat guys who also fail the evaluation reside. Other big 'uns typically find their way to an FAO spot or eventually to limited duty... or perhaps to a different line of work.
The women who fail even the "dumbed down" version of our combat challenge PPE are given time off and one year to come up to speed (IN THEORY). Really, they stay on active duty and the failure is overlooked while everyone in administration crosses their fingers that she'll do better next year. After all, nobody wants to deal with a lawsuit.
We've never had a male failure (even the fattest of the fat have passed the annual PPE), so I can't say from experience whether or not they would have the penalties enforced.
To give you an idea of what it's like - We have 7 minutes to complete the course and I can do it in just over 2 without really even trying. I think average times are around 2 1/2 to 3 minutes.
While I'm on the subject, I'd be remiss not to mention one of our guys that does nothing but complain about the physical aspects of the job. When we train he does the bare minimum because "It's kind of hurting my arm" or "I'm just real tired and my back is aching after that last evolution". Don't have to tell you that he gets NO respect from our guys on the fireground. 90% of the time, whoever does the day's schedule puts his sorry, schrawny butt on the ambulance.
Now - When our department lost 2 firefighters on April 4, 2008, Guess where this guy was?
On the RAT company.
No matter what, our guys need to be up to speed because THEY MIGHT BE THE ONE in charge of getting your butt out of trouble. This is why regardless of attitude, sex, race, religion, creed, hair color, etc. - We need to be our brother's keeper and give a little family love to those who need some direction!
And I do mean LOVINGLY so the message is received and some good comes from it and isn't dismissed out of hurt feelings or defensiveness or whatever. Then again, there are those that need to be offended and I hope that we all have the guts and common sense to do so in order that we all have more cohesive, safe and efficient departments.
Everybody stay safe and keep learning new stuff every shift!!
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Permalink Reply by John on
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Well I honestly don't have a problem with it as long as they pull thier own weight. Taking orders is not a problem as long as they have the expirence, and I don't get into the whole sexual harrasment thing, there is alot of things said at the stations that should not be said, but do and I am not one who condons it.
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Permalink Reply by Bill Smith on
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I do not believe women can effectivly or safely do the job. However, neither do a percentage of males. I do feel women make excellent medics and I feel that is the area where they really shine. I don't think strength is their main drawback. I don't think women understand leverage, and how to use it to accomplish tasks. I think men use leverage more frequently and understand its application, and use it without thinking, not only on the job but in recreation as well. A person who understands leverage has a big advantage over those that don't, and that person is usually male. I feel that having women in the station does add to the sexual tension, and increases the chances for complaints. I know stuff happens it's just easier now. Sex while on duty used to be difficult, inviting women into quarters. Now they're already there and very active and available. If you don't know what's going on in the station you're the one guarding the flagpole.
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