Women in the fire service(honest opinion)

Hola,
Just wanted to get some honest feed back about how men feel about having women serve as FF. Please be very honest! The reason for this is:
1. I have witnessed society feels women can't do this job- we are to fragile , etc.
2. People think women that work around a bunch of men must be easy or having relations with at least one of the them
3. Sexual harrassment issues arise more often
4. Some men have trouble taking orders from a woman (or vice versa)
These are just a few of the things I have seen or heard about.. Please share y you feel this way

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Permalink Reply by Ben Waller on October 21, 2008 at 9:06pm

Bill,

Women can do the job effectively and safely. I know several who are very good firefighters and fire officers.
Generalizing this to all women simply isn't accurate. I know female firefighters that are a lot smarter about using leverage than some of the male firefighters they work with.

And...if everyone in quarters acts in a professional manner, there won't be any sexual problems.
If there's sex in quarters, it's just as much the fault of the male firefighters who engage in it as it is the woman's, whether she's a firefighter or not.

As for female firefighters increasing the chances for complaints, I've found the exact opposite. It's very difficult for a female outsider to make a sexual harassment complaint against a male firefighter and have it upheld in the presence of a female firefighter...unless the male firefighter is actually stupid enough to engage in that type of unprofessional behavior in front of a teammate.

Every firefighter should have to prove that he or she belongs, based on knowledge, skills, and abilities. If you're using gender to disqualify qualified candidates, a) it's illegal and b) you're artificially limiting the quality of your organization. Validated pre-hire testing will prevent hiring of unqualified candidates.

If male firefighters are acting an an unprofessional manner, then their company officer needs to straighten them out. Using female firefighters as an excuse for bad behavior on the part of male firefighters doesn't hold up to basic scrutiny.

Ben

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Permalink Reply by Brian Boeseneilers on October 21, 2008 at 9:33pm

Hey Im all for it. We ( the fire service) need all the help we can get.

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Permalink Reply by Jim Dyson on October 21, 2008 at 9:56pm

if a person can do the job gender does not come into play with me

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Permalink Reply by Spanner 122 on October 21, 2008 at 10:15pm

Oh my. Only men can understand leverage, women are active and available for sex?? I'm really sorry this is the way you see things. leverage is your main concern? Men who put on 50 lbs in three years and run out of air 5 minutes into a training exercise is not a concern? Young bucks, driving gung ho to a minor call, flipping the rig and dying or killing crew members is not a concern? Firefighters showing up drunk for work from the night before putting their crews at risk is not a concern? (just a little note, these are commonly men).

You went with leverage?
Honestly, no disrespect, but if someone was going to come up with a compelling arguement as to why women should not be firefighters, leverage would not be it. I'm not an idiot. I understand leverage. As for being ACTIVE AND AVAILABLE for sex.... that doesn't apply to me either, but if I was going to pick one of those to be offended by, it would be the leverage! lol

Not to worry, I'm not offended in the least, just bewildered. There are so many other major concerns in the fire service. And many capable and strong women. I work with 10 men in my station and only 6 of US can raise and extend a 35 on our own, the same 6 who can extend a bangor on our own. It's not rocket science, ironically, it's actually leverage! lol

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Permalink Reply by Jeff Cole on October 22, 2008 at 1:53am

This shouldn't even be an issue. Women perform every day in the role of Police Officer every day in physical conflict with males. It'spretty much the same with firefighting. This dead horse has been beaten too long. I have had the priveledge of working with some very capable, professional females during my career. I have also worked with totaly incompetent males who were complete physical wrecks. Some bone-skinny, although the majority hugging that obese line all the while fooling themselves thinking they are big and powerful. I'll take a reasonably conditioned female ANYDAY over an overweight, sedate male.
Personally I also think women are capable and should be allowed as Infantry in the Military as well.
As far as the sexual thing, that's just plain redicules. Women are found in every other form of employment and work place along side males, the fire station is no different. Bunk room, kithcens, bathrooms, whatever. It's a wok place, a professional enviornment. Anyone who disrespects this in the fire station would most likely do it in any other employment venue. And the reply by "Kim' about leverage drove home the point. Those involved with EMS are the ones most often doing the lifting of the heavy weights. It's no difference. Saying that women don't understand leverage just makes me curious as to how one would arrive at such a conclusion. To the contrary I have seen many women who are Martial Arts experts who fully understand leverage and how to use it.
It's just time for this question to be put into the Smithsonian Institue!
And when they can't do something they are far more apt to admit it and ask for help as they don't have such a delicate ego as so many men do. And yup, I'm a guy too.

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Permalink Reply by Jason Edwards on October 23, 2008 at 3:43pm

HOLY COW, Bill! How warm are your feet considering the pile of stuff you just stepped in? Ha! Something tells me the only leverage you've had to consider in recent history is how to most effectively pry that sticky brownie out of the bottom of the pan.

Seriously, though... What I can tell you on this one is that my wife (a 2nd degree black belt in Aiki-jujitsu) understood leverage perfectly the day she (about 150#) sent my butt (215#) sailing across a mat and onto my head in front of our entire class. I'm sure you would have been amazed! Scratching your head, even. I couldn't turn my head to the right for like 2 weeks. See - I got stupid and just went after her like an uneducated ass and she applied (gasp!) LEVERAGE to use my own momentum against me and send me nips over tip in front of all those intelligent men.

Anyway - Like I mentioned in my other post on this topic - I have shown men and women how to use body mechanics and leverage to better accomplish rescues like in the Denver Drill. Truthfully, it's the sedentary that have the most trouble with this concept since they aren't used to using their bodies to do much more than eat and push buttons on a remote control.

Stay safe - and read a book once in a while... ;)

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Permalink Reply by scott t on October 23, 2008 at 4:00pm

If you can do the job do the job. It doesnt matter if you are a man or women you are going to get offended by someone. Deal with it and get over it. It doesnt take a woman in the fire house to have sexual harrassment. If you have problems taking orders become your own boss. I have worked private EMS for years and been a full time Firefighter for almost a year. I have seen penis at both jobs. When I worked private EMS i saw breasts. They are just body parts we should be able to control ourselves and not get throwin in to a tizzy over it. Use some common sense and things should be ok.

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Permalink Reply by Jill on October 24, 2008 at 3:02pm

Hello...I was born and raised in the fire service. My father retired after 25 + years. I have seen woman in the field, like myself that are "just one of the guys" and I have seen others that are not. I personally feel that it is a field that is 99.99% all MALE! IF she cant take the heat then dont play! I actually tried on get on a department and was told not to even try 'cause I was female. I am one of those people that if I dont feel like I can do something I will ask for help, or not even try. When I worked full time on a squad I shared a bunk room with the guys. I was one of 3 women that worked there. I would wear boxers under my work clothes and would sleep on the top bunk. I think that some women THINK that they are made for the job but are WHY to GIRLY for it and honestly it makes me so mad to read and hear about woman filing the harrassment suites,etc...IF YOU CANT PLAY WITH THE GUYS...BE A POWERED PUFF AND DONT DO IT!....Just my option...

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Permalink Reply by Spanner 122 on October 24, 2008 at 8:05pm

Ahhhh, yes, "150 years of tradition, unimpeded by change." great attitude kid, especially from someone who has been a volunteer for a year. If you are going to your hall for sex, smoking, poker and booze, you are going there for the wrong reasons. A little maturity is also a welcome thing in the firehall.

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Permalink Reply by Joe Stoltz on October 24, 2008 at 9:17pm

"Fire fighting is a long tradition of the grittiest and roughest men available talking sex, smoking cigs, playing poker and depending where you are, drinking booze."

Where is this fire house? I'd love to see it. I guess I missed out on the "good old days" when men were men. In this area that "long tradition" you speak of was gone before I got into the business, oh almost 27 years ago.

At THAT time there women in the fire service, both career and volunteer.