Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by mike wright on September 8, 2008 at 6:24pm

With the building being vacant I would protect exposures and drowned the fire. I would start with the four guys protecting the exposures. Far as safty concerns would be collapse and if there are any homeless people inside. What was really inside the building and if it was vacant then how did the fire start? I would put another couple of engine crews in route with a ladder company in route as well. I see there are hydrants close by so water shouldnt be a problem.

Permalink Reply by Karl Campbell on October 8, 2008 at 7:29am

First off I would call for some ariel trucks and man power for mutual aid, I would have my pumper set up in front of non involved building on same side of the street in case the building involved collapsed the non involved building should protect the pumper and operator, give one FF the task of hooking up to the hydrant and when done will take over pump operation two FF's would set up a un mannned monitor nozzle across the street keeping in mind the building looks four stories high and if collapses need to be in safe area, while I will perform my perimeter check this would have to be done with extreme caution due to the condition of the building and it's threat of collapse also would evacuate near by buildings and order them to get as far back as possible contact police and have them set up a 2 block perimeter contact power/gas company to respond and have ambulance stationed close by in case of injuries, this is strictly a defensive approach if there were anyone inside they are already dead I would not allow search teams to enter this building. when more FF's arrive I might have 3 to a team stationed on the near by roofs of the other building with 2 1/2" hooked up to that buildings stand pipes if available, all FF's would be in full turn out gear and scba not under air unless the wind direction should change they would be ready for it.

Permalink Reply by Jay Lowry on October 26, 2008 at 6:07pm

What are the assignments of the four crew?

The officer (Me) will do a 360 to see guage conditions on all sides while the crew sets up for a master stream operation on the AB side.

What are the safety considerations for operations around the building?

The possibility of collapse is very real. Auto exposure to nearby structures, especially with drapes in the windows to the left means exposures become an issue.

What do you need for resources?

2nd and 3rd alarms. Multiple ladder trucks to gain access to nearby roofs and engines to go in and set up handlines to halt the horizontal spread of fire.

What are you going to Do?

Call for a second alarm and stage a third. Prepare to make stand in nearby structures.

Permalink Reply by Sarah Turner on October 27, 2008 at 9:47pm

If this scenario were to happen in my district, plenty of manpower is available, as the city of Charleston and us have automatic aid for structure fires.

First engine in would start protecting alpha bravo exposures and catch that hydrant, making sure that their truck is out of the collapse zone, which would be established upon arrival. If that is not possible, catch a different hydrant.
Three story building fully involved, and according to the color and velocity of the smoke, there is plenty of fuel in there.
Truck one would be useful for their master stream directly on the fire.
Second engine in would be assigned the charlie delta exposures.
This is a defensive operation for the main fire building, but offensive attacks would be needed to keep fire out of the exposures, if indeed the delta side is connected to another building.
Due to offensive attacks in the exposures, RIT would need to be set up, and EMS would be on scene.

Utility companies would be contacted to assure all utilities have been successfully cut off.

Of course evacuation of all the adjacent buildings would take place if needed. It is common in the north for ordinary old construction to have common attics as well as basements to promote fire spread. I cannot tell if the fire building is connected to another on the delta side or not.

Staging of fresh crews would be in everyones best interest as well.

Water, exposures, and imminent collapse are the major factors here.

Permalink Reply by Christopher J. Naum, SFPE on October 27, 2008 at 11:04pm

Everyone's got some good insights. Biggests issues- Don't park in the front-the hydrant looks tempting but look at the big picture related to the collapse zone. Degree of fire involvment and construction types makes this structure very prone to collapse; particial of comprehensive. Think about bouncing bricks well beyond the immediate collapse zone. Exposure protection, large caliber streams and a well establihed safety work perimeter are important. What fuel load is present, which includes the structural compenents can be extinguished fairly qucikly with some sustained and well placed master streams and monitors. This will be a fairly quick knock down, IF we take the necessary precautions, keep the fire from jumping to the adjacent exposure structure(s) AND by keeping everyone OUT of the structure. There is absolutly NO value in placing anyone within the collapse zone or allowing anyone withn the building footprint. Adequate resources to supply water, strategic placement of water delivery ( a couple of trucks with elevated streams), safety focus and situational awareness, no freelancing or playing and this would be a two hour job or less with an hour of taking up and its back to quarters and some fresh coffee and the next alarm.....