Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Bill Brierton on August 15, 2007 at 8:35pm

Unfortunely it does in the county where I volunteer. Of course what doesn't help is that the volunteers bash each other.

Permalink Reply by Lawrence W on August 15, 2007 at 9:26pm

Unfortunately, there will always be some form of clash between career and volunteer. People tend to see it as a competition as to the reason why they are there. A Paycheck vs Service to the Community.

I am a career fire inspector / firefighter and I volunteer in my community. I see no sense in bashing each other for any reason. We are all there to do a job, and we should all have common goals. I hope to see a day in my lifetime when these types of conflicts are eliminated in our firehouses.

There will always be rivalries and competition between stations, I understand that. But we need to get along on scene and in the firehouse, not just for the fact that we work together, but also because we need to present a public image that we gel as a group regardless of our status. Lets keep competition on the softball field...

Thanks,

L

Permalink Reply by Jake (Berny) on August 15, 2007 at 9:59pm

There isn't too much of one in my town, but the more friendly style of bashing between the rural and city departments. We poke jokes back and forth, but it's usually all in good fun.

Permalink Reply by Yank2441 on August 16, 2007 at 12:31am

I am a paid fire fighter and I also volunteer. As a paid department we still need the volly FD's in Gaffney. Our staff is so short handed that on a large structure we must have volly back up. However, I do prefer to go into a burning structure with someone who has simular training and most of the time our volly departments that surround us send some help that may just have the bare minimum of training and experience. Why should I trust someone who I don't know and may leave me holding my marbles inside a working structure?

I don't look down on volly's because they are needed but at the same time there is a difference in someone who must come in and check his equipment over everyday and those who might not see there volly equipment for months. There is a difference between a person who is on the nozzle 20 times a year compared to someone who may be on the nozzle 20 times in his volly career. I know this may not sit well with volly's but it is a fact of life.

I have heard the argument that we all see the same fire and this is true. It's just that usually a professional fire fighter has been hired because the fire department was running to many calls for a volly department to handle. So its only common sense that a paid fire fighters sees more action than a volly department.

There are some volunteers that I fight fire with and even though they were to try and try, they would never get hired by a paid department because of several factors. However, they are dedicated and provide a FREE service so they are welcome to volly. Professional fire fighters have to meet a standard and rightly so.

Permalink Reply by Melanie on August 16, 2007 at 2:50am

Sad but true....my county is the same way. Although out county is not paid, we're all volly's; several of the surrounding county departments are paided, which some we have mutral aid agreements with. As a volly, we do get bashed every now and then and it's usually on a scene where they've been called for aid and when you least need their "constructive" critisism.

Permalink Reply by coryE56 on August 16, 2007 at 10:19am

Jeffery you made a great point why go in with some one you dont know as a volunteer we respond to our local paid or carrer fd. but I refuse to go in with one of them for the same reason it has nothing to do with training in kentucky we all have the same training volunteer or carrer

Permalink Reply by Robert Owens on August 16, 2007 at 10:41am

I have been on both sides of the coin in a combination dept. and all I can offer is my take on it.

1. The career guys have no respect for volunteers even the good ones. No matter if you are career elsewhere or just a really good vollie they don't care becuase more of you means less dept. growth for them, less promotional opportunity etc. etc. etc.

2. The vollies (most of them) want it both ways. They want all the respect with less than half the work or the accountability. They want the career guy to respect them and think of them as equals. So when you treat them as equals and a career officer disciplines a vollie for an SOP violation or whatever the same way he would a career guy you get the "but I am just a volunteer, you can't hold me to that standard".

That has been my experience in the combination system. They way to fix it in my opinion is to be 100% equal to everyone. You hire a volunteer and career person the same. Application, interview, background check, etc. Once hired they go through a recruit class (obviously lengthend for a volunteer who holds a full time job but covering the same topics) wether prior experience or not ( cause no two FD's are the same). Then they go to there company and are place on a probationary period to be evealuated by a supervisor. Everyone is issued the same uniforms and everyone is on the same page from day 1. The career guys and vollies have gone through the same program and 1 day if the vollie wants to join the career side there is no lag time cause he already has everything you require for a firefighter right down to the uniforms. With this also comes the same accountability on both sides.

This in my opinion would solve alot of problems and you could also apply it to line, and chief officers. As long as everyone goes through the same program and gains the same knowledge who cares if the vlollie needs 2 months to do it cause of his job. The hard part from management is you have to care about the people involved in order to make this work. To many depts wake up one morning and say we are now a combination system with out any kind of plan. This happened in the county I volunteered in. Every week it was always something else some new idea on how to fix the system instead of taking the time in the begining to figure it out.

Ready, aim, Fire always works better than Fire, aim, ready

Permalink Reply by Joe Sheldon on August 16, 2007 at 8:35pm

NOW that touches a nerve! You CANNOT try to distinguish between professional and volunteer - those lines will cross. However, you can distinguish between career (full time) and volunteer, as well as professional and unprofessional. But you can very well have a professional volunteer fire department, and I can assure you there are a great deal of unprofessional full time departments. In fact, the number of unprofessional full time departments disgusts me. There is simply no excuse for it. But I also think there is no excuse for unprofessional volunteer departments as well. Whatever the motivation to be a firefighter, whether it be pride or paycheck, every single one of us should be a professional about it.

If your department, full time or volunteer, can't be professional on scene and off, it's time to get out of the business!

Also, to clarify, if your department, volunteer or full time, is professional and trains properly, there should be no difference in going into a fire with either one. And, if a volunteer department is professional, then they damn well better be seeing their gear more than once every couple of months!

Permalink Reply by Jerell on August 16, 2007 at 10:30pm

It happens all the time in PG county, Maryland

Permalink Reply by Al Maguire on August 17, 2007 at 12:48am

Joe Well put. I feel the same way unfortunately there are allot of people who don't show up hell some guys on my vol dept only show up for meetings and how ever hard I have tried ie: lead by example, training, starting a mentor program,getting to the new guys before the morons get to them. I have banged my head against the wall so many damn times it's not funny. I know that it will make a difference some day it has to. The bottom line is that too many of us are getting killed and allot of it can be stopped. Weather paid or Volly you should know how to put on a f'n seatbelt.
Be Safe and don't do stupid stuff!

Permalink Reply by Firefighter Nation WebChief on August 17, 2007 at 12:59am

Just a quick note that the whole volunteer v. career online discussion rarely goes anywhere. If this one gets inappropriate or out of control, we'll close it down.

Thanks
Web Chief

Permalink Reply by Dan Hoey on August 17, 2007 at 9:18am

I have been on both sides of this issue and I have a few issues to take up, Being both an UNPAID and PAID Professional and thats how I see because now days most training for both is extensive, at least where I am the "volleys" seem to have more training hours then the local paid departments. When I was doing this for a living I know I heard comments from paid guys like they are not good to help us??? Well lets say this "They" are waking up out of bed driving to the fire house and running in for free and you going to call them not good enough?? I had a hard time getting paid guys out of bed when being paid.
When I was in NY do you know how many guys who are FDNY volunteer in their home town?
Now that I am enjoying my life I can tell you I give more hours to my Volunteer Dept, then I ever gave to anyone paying me to do this. All I know is the person having my back is the best person in the world now matter what compinsation he or she is getting for being there.
Lets all start more bad arguements Like should women be on a truck or What color is the best firemen
ANYONE DOING THIS JOB PAID OR UNPAID YOU HAVE MY RESPECT!!

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