Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Engineer Ulfrik on August 17, 2007 at 12:31pm

I agree with Joe. It's not a matter of Career vs. Volly it's Pro. vs. Unpro. Or in the case here in South MS. trained or untrained. We do mutual aid w/the county & the unfortunate problem we have is untrained or improperly trained vollys. I was talking to a friend who is a career ff and volunteers at the county station near his house. He went to a fire w/ the county Dept. and found out that there was only 4 firefighters at that station who were qualified to wear SCBA, & he was one of them! You can't fight fire effectively without having firefighters that can relieve those that are inside fighting the fire. Effectively it becomes a surround & drown & you loose a structure that w/ properly trained & qualified presonnel could have been saved w/minimal damage to the structure.
Don't get me wrong these are great people. They just lack the training to be effective structural firefighters, (down here anyway.)

Permalink Reply by Kevin King on August 17, 2007 at 1:19pm

I've got a idea,instead of runnin each other down.Invite your outside agencies to join you in training or volunteer to participate in training with them.Get to know them and they get to know you,each learns how the other operates.It might kinda smooth some feathers and both would benefit from the experience,if from nothing else the working knowledge of how each outfit operates.

Permalink Reply by Jesse Henson on August 17, 2007 at 1:35pm

my city there is about 20 career firefighters and only 6 volunteer firefighters the bashing youre talking about definatly happens and like you said we dont really do anything about it we get put down when we CANT make it to a fire because of work or cant come to training because of work the career guys tell us that were not very good at what we do that we dont even need volunteers anymore

thank you for bringing this to light

Permalink Reply by johnson on August 17, 2007 at 2:01pm

well here is what i have to say about this,,,, i have been both and we all do the same job so why bash each other? and oh what i was going to say they get paid to do the job and we volly's do it cause everyone ones lifes depend on it so to the paid firefighters step back and think twice about what you are doing cause i bet 95% of paid firefighter's where a volly at one point in there life's and its a brother and sister hood we need to stand tall and take up for each other and not bash one or the other,,, we all do the same job just some get money for it and other's don't , and there are more vollys in this world than they ever will be paid. so now i have said what i needed to on this may god keep you all safe and god bless each and everyone of us out there.

Permalink Reply by Randy on August 17, 2007 at 2:25pm

The fire,the passing car at an MVA scene,the structural collapse does not care if you are a paid or unpaid professional.LODD is LODD.If there is a problem between the two,then the ones with the problem are in this business for the wrong reasons.WE are a brotherhood deep with tradition.I have your back you have mine.Plain and simple,nothing more.Training is the only thing that will enable us to go home after the run.WE are all firefighters no matter where in the world you live.Again, We are one.Be safe and take care of each other,WE are all we have.

Permalink Reply by fireguy2emt on August 17, 2007 at 3:13pm

The conflict between career and volly isn't that bad in my area. First, let me start of by saying that I am a volunteer. I have no desire to do it as a paid job - I like what I do. I enjoy volunteering. I am from a city with 140 volunteers and 27 career. 98% of the career firefighters were volunteers at one point - and at least half are still volunteers in the outlying communities. There are a select few from both sides that like to start problems. Since we have recently changed administration, both sides seem to be working together even better. We train as one, we work together as one. It is a shame that we will never eliminate the line between the two, the best we can hope for is to make the line less noticeable.

Permalink Reply by Medic111 on August 17, 2007 at 4:45pm

There is some bashing between career and Volly departments where I am too. Mostly the Paid bashing the volunteers. Alot of it has gone down over the years though, with a lot of older paid firefighters are retiring. I think a lot of it has to do with respect. I run into alot of them at the hospitals, and alot of the older guys will just walk by not even say hi, like you werent even there. The city is surrounded by volunteer departments, during big fires they wont call mutual aid from the neighboring depts. but will call other career departments that are further away....union thing. Ive even heard a rumor that years back when the did ask for mutual aid from a volunteer dept. that some rocks were thown at that depts truck by the paid guys.

Permalink Reply by Randy Macey on August 17, 2007 at 9:40pm

Clash between Vol. & Career, the way I look at it. Career when you talk to them, they frown when it comes to training. Where Vol. show up cause they want to learn, as I see it. "Once the Pager goes off, we are no longer Vol. we are Firefighters". Both Career and Vol. we have some great firefighters, and then on the other hand we have ones that we hope will jump on another truck or not be there. It does not matter if Career or Vol. , we are out to do the same thing, and that is to come to the aid of our community and customer. If you look at the flip side to bashing, look at the difference between Police, Ambulance & Fire. Again they seem not to want to work as a team, but want to see who is incharge. At our hall we are one big family, and put all things aside once the tones go off and work as a team and watch each others backs. Main goal is that we all come home!

Mace

Permalink Reply by Mason Muench on August 17, 2007 at 10:27pm

It happens all around the country and there is no way to fix it. The "Jolly Vollys" will always be in a grudge with the "Useless Union" and vice-versa. Everyone says that they cn change it but all of us firefighter are stubborn and won't change. Just live in both worlds you'll see soon enough.

Permalink Reply by Mike Octeau on August 17, 2007 at 11:15pm

As both a career FF and a volunteer, I have heard the constant complaints from both sides of the fence regarding who is better, more qualifed, more dedicated , etc. I think the competative nature of our job breeds the "bashing". Both sides have their loudmouths and problem children that add fuel to the "fire" but the real firefighters know that we all do the same job, paid or volunteer. We also have our organizations that add to this problem ( you know who you are) on both sides of the discussion. Regardless of what is said, small towns are not able to pony up the millions of dollars to support a paid service in the area.Volunteers do the best they can to answer alarms with limited manpower and budgets.
Paid fire departments are not the fiscal burdens that the politicians portray them to be. Sometimes the call volume is just too great to ask volunteers to meet the needs of the community - Therefore, we must pay people to provide constant service. Do these paid personnel get reimbursed fairly for the risks they take - I say no!! Lets all face it- There will aways be the need for paid and volunteer fire departments everywhere. No one is trying to take anyone's job or position - we're just too busy answering calls for aid to worry about that.

With that being said, I think both sides need to cut the paid/ volunteer bickering and put their energy together to fight fire budget cuts and force Federal and State Governments to make changes to the amounts of money that is spent on providing support to firefighters - not just the small amounts that make their way to grant progams.

Permalink Reply by Randy on August 17, 2007 at 11:36pm

Furthermore,training is THE most inportant part of our job.Without it we cannot do what we do.For the first part of my career I had the basic 36 hour class which is all that is required by the state of Ohio for an unpaid professional.I love to train and once I had the chance,I obtained my 240 hour certification.The same certification as paid professionals.The only difference between us is training.I train every Tuesday night,have for 28 years(unless I'm working).The point is the only difference between career and volunteer is training.All departments must be trained and cross trained to be able complement each other during mutual aid.In the future,credentialing will insure that those who respond have the proper training to be an asset during the incident.As far as "bashing" one another,it does not belong in the fire service anywhere at anytime.

Permalink Reply by Kevin King on August 21, 2007 at 5:51pm

I've sat and read this in several different variations on many sites. All I know to say to any or all of you is Train,Train and TRAIN somemore.If you don't train you can't be professional,if you don't show up for calls you can't practice your training,if you don't practice your training you cant be professional.Reading,Watching videos,taking tests is all good but you have to apply that knowledge to actually learn it and the more you apply it the better you'll get.I've been on both sides of this coin, one thing I can assure you of is this proud time honored tradition way of life that we love was founded by volunteers and all the bashing and bad mouthing in the world cannot and will not take that away from anyone of us that does the job to the best of his or hers ability every time the tones go out.Be PROUD of who you are,present yourself and your department as professionals.If you're in it for perks your wasting your time and putting others in dangers path this not a glory game when we lose a fight people die,property is lost and lives are shattered.This senseless bickering about I'm better than you is Horsesh#t.DO YOUR JOBS AND EVERYONE GOES HOME!!!!!!!!! God bless and be Safe

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