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Comment by Dustin J. Millis on December 22, 2008 at 2:55am

Hey guys, thanks for the great comments. I was expecting to get a few older guys on here and give me the same lecture that the officer gave me that day, and maybe I still will; thats fine with me, thats what this site is about after all. Anyway...Cory, I definatly see what you mean about this guy being from a differant department and all. Looking back, I probably would have handled it differantly, just kinda chuckled and walked away from the two, but at the time; I was so awestruck that I really couldnt help myself from saying something before thinking, someting I especially need to work on. Anyway, thanks again guys

Comment by Art "ChiefReason" Goodrich on December 20, 2008 at 12:01am

What do I think?
As a firefighter, you should have an appetite for training that is as insatiable as that of a rookie, probie, newbie or jake.
Regardless of your years in, if you see something wrong, you have a duty to speak up. It might just lengthen your career and the careers of the ones around you.
Yeah; you might want to listen more, but in no way should you feel that you HAVE to keep your mouth shut when the prudent thing is to say something.
There is no mandate that says you are required to keep your mouth shut for some inexplicable reason.
There is a time to show respect and there is a time to show what you are made of.
You can do both without compromising your values or your safety.
TCSS.
Art

Comment by PA Firefighter on December 19, 2008 at 8:30pm

Unfortunately we all have people like this. We must make sure they do not get into positions where they can pass their traits onto young firefighters. Like Kenneth says we are never too old to train. When we feel we are its time to pack it in.

Comment by Kenneth Holley on December 19, 2008 at 7:55pm

You are never to old in the game not to learn something. Training is and will always be an ongoing thing in the fire service. If this captain has been there, done it all kind of guy why is he still a captain. He should be chief of the department.

Comment by Ron Maddox on December 19, 2008 at 6:45pm

As an officer myself, the leadership of that person has some holes in it. I have 20 years in and I still train. Most of the time I teach, that way I do it first and help you do it as well. The only thing I can say is that you may have pushed his buttons a little hard, not that it didn't need to happen, but some old timers feel threatened. This is a young mans game, it hurts now to do a structure fire and work the next day. If there are things that I cannot do anymore I will tell you I don't make claimes that I am too good. This is a problem all over and I don't have a solution, just go easy on the buttons..... And keep training! You will be an "old hat" someday and wonder why a "snot nosed brat" is questioning ME. Just remember that, store it away, and one day you will know what this old LT. is saying.
A better way to handle it, is to go up the chain of command with your concerns and comments.

Comment by Cory on December 19, 2008 at 2:20pm

Cheif, I agree with what you are saying but with 2 years on and the guy isn't on your dept. you would go toe to toe with them? When I was an officer at the place I work part time I vol. for almost 10 before going part time paid there but I wouldn't accept anybody not training I would call them out. But as a probie, at my full time dept. I keep my mouth shut and talk when I should because I've been on for coming up on my year in a few months and I don't want to start off as a loud mouth. As I get time on it will change but until then I keep it shut. What do you think Chief?

Comment by Art "ChiefReason" Goodrich on December 19, 2008 at 1:06pm

AVOID THEM? No way. I would go out of my way to let them know that I will neither cow down or back down.
Dustin; I have been around this type for over 28 years. They are the ones who think that the fire service OWES them something. They are working towards retirement. That's all.
I have stood toe to toe and face to face with some of the finest that our fire service has to offer. That puts you on equal footing AND the same level as far as I'm concerned.
If you have done your homework, studied and trained hard, then you have nothing to prove.
Especially to an egotistical ass.
TCSS.
Art

Comment by Cory on December 19, 2008 at 8:40am

Ask the guy if he ever heard of the saying "Complacency Kills". The way that it might have went over better is to ask him to show you some pointers and what he has learned over the years of doing it and say you would like to see if he does anything different. If he is involved in the training, there is no reason for him to not do it, and as an old timer he should be willing to show you what he has learned over the years. You know classroom sometimes or a lot of times is different than the real world! When it’s another department’s guy, it’s up to their officer core to address the guy; you don't want to start something with an old timer especially on another dept., even if you are right. This guy probably has seen a lot but there is no reason to not train. To me this might sounds stupid but he is either scared cause he hasn't done it in a while so he don't want to look stupid, or he is just plain old lazy or he isn't able to do it anymore and if that’s the case then he needs to retire! Just like Celeb said, but I will put it in a different way, when you haven't pumped in a while it takes a second to get back into the flow even though you know how to do it, now bailing out when all hell breaks loose that’s not the time to be rusty! How to deal with it, it’s truly not your problem to worry about at this point because he is on another dept. If his dept. is pro-active in training then they will take care of it themselves. I can understand you being upset cause I would be to. I wasn't there but I can assure you I would have been steaming!

Comment by Mark Montgomery on December 19, 2008 at 4:33am

These are really good people to take very careful note of. Take especial care to remember their names, faces and the units they are associated with
.
Then do all you can to avoid them like the pox!

They are dangerous to you and your fellow firefighters.