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Comment by Mick Mayers on January 12, 2009 at 9:17pm

Outstanding.

Comment by Ron Graner on January 11, 2009 at 3:49pm

Lutan1 made the following statements above: “when we see videos and photos of things going bad, performing unsafe acts, etc (Look at the "Flashover" video on FFN for a great example). We hang 'em out to dry, we crucify them, we attack them…. However the moment there's an LODD, we jump on the bandwagon of "Oh, weren't they great, they gave everything, look at the sacrifice they made", etc (or words to that affect). That's regardless of how they died….Why? Why do we attack the ones who survived to fight another day and then standby the ones who die, who quite possibly died doing the wrong or unsafe thing? I'm confused- please shed some light for me...”

The answers are as simple as the reason for this web site:
We standby those who have died because we respect those who have given their all for the people they serve and there is nothing we can offer but respect to them and their families.
We “ Hang out to dry.. Crucify… and Attack” when we see videos and photos of things going wrong at incidents because we do not want to have more people join the ranks of those who gave their all.
We do so because during the heat of battle leaders often fail to remember the rules of combat and we pray that by reading the observations made by others, and by making comments themselves in the comfort of reading a web site that once those leaders and firefighters are faced with similar situations in REAL life, they will never forgot the lessons others have learned. We pray that each reader will take the proper actions required to protect the lives of their brothers and sisters as well as the people they serve.
That is the primary job of a leader in this profession.

Comment by morris washburn on January 11, 2009 at 11:48am

Thanks Tiger, That was the best blog I have ever read. I to a fromer W.N.Y. er .I dont know the FF's of Cuba and Freindship,but I will someday when I come back for a visit . It does not matter to me where we all live , we do the same job,but when I here or read about another FF down , my heart begins to hurt .Sotooall my brothers and sisters , GOD BLESS you all .Stay safe .

Comment by Doug Hogan on January 11, 2009 at 11:32am

I read posts from this site and several others on a daily basis. I rarely respond, but I do take in everything that I read. Most of what I read is positive, and some of it is negative. Either way it has an impact, however slight it may be, on how I perform my job. Although there are some very negative comments posted at times, if you look at who posts the comments, they tend to be from the same people over and over again. These are the same guys in the station that are very outspoken. But you just take it in stride, and dish it back in an appropriate manner. That's the brotherhood of this job. It's hard to understand, even for ourselves at times. It’s our nature to criticize and play armchair quarterback, because we are constantly developing new techniques in the fire service. Complacency is our worst enemy and changing our old ways is sometimes very hard for us to do. Many traditions die hard, and at times, it is only in the wake of tragedy that we change our old methods. So when some firefighters speak out about behaviors that we see on the numerous websites, it’s the harsh criticism that is heard. However, the squeaky wheel gets the oil. You may read shocking comments and wonder how a firefighter can criticize a brother/sister firefighter in such a way, but it caused you to think about what he/she is saying. At some point, it likely caused you to alter how you perform a particular action. Unfortunately, many of our procedures come about because of past failures. One department I previously worked for had procedures and guidelines that were named (unofficially) for the person that caused its creation. Are there guys out there, either writing in forums or at our stations that are just jerks? Sure. We have all worked with someone who you couldn’t stand. But I can’t recall too many firefighters over the past 14 years that didn’t get into the fire service for the same reason I did. Don’t get me wrong, I know there are the few out there that are unsafe and perhaps shouldn’t be in this field. It is the job a good officer to correct these behaviors and discipline appropriately. I feel very strongly that good training can correct most bad habits and prevent many LODD’s.

My point is that when the tones go off, we are all going out to do the same job. When one of our brothers or sisters is injured or killed, we are at their side to honor what they have done, regardless of their personality. We do so because they and their families need our support; that is not the time for criticism. There is a mutual respect among firefighters that is difficult for us to explain, and difficult for ‘outsiders’ to comprehend. So although it seems hypocritical when some of us can be extremely harsh at times, and jump on the bandwagon during tragedy, think about it another way. A firefighter who survives a close call will be attacked for the behavior that endangered him, but that firefighter is alive to do things differently. The real hypocrisy is the firefighter that survives and never changes his ways. I have served as a company officer and serve now as a chief officer. I have always treated my firefighters fairly and with respect. I have gotten up their @55 on occasion (not on scene, and always in private) when they were nearly killed or maimed so they understand the magnitude of their actions. I know that I have been thought of as an a**hole in that moment, but I always ask the person to tell my why it was so dangerous and what the results could have been. In every occasion, that firefighter changed their behavior and was a better firefighter because of it. That example is not that different that what we see go on in the forums. Here’s the primary difference: as an officer, it is my job to counsel the firefighter at a personal level for the behavior that we all see in these videos; it is everyone else’s job to recognize what they see in the video as dangerous and to encourage our fellow firefighters to change their actions. I am not without fault, and I remember where I came from. I was a firefighter for 8 years before I took my first promotional exam. I have had my turn in the hot seat more than once, and have learned much from it. As I said at the beginning of this, I take in everything and learn from it in some way. That’s why I go to the funerals and hospital bedsides whenever possible.

Comment by patricia mccarty on January 11, 2009 at 3:10am

Hey Tiger. I'm sorry the concepts of dignity and respect are meaningless to some people. I'm also sorry a lot of people don't realize the only thing between us and and dancing with a semi truck is a painted yellow line.

FF's dance with more danger than anyone, except maybe LEO's and soldiers. Physics will not be denied. Are firefighters superheroes? No. They are ordinary people, trying to solve problems and walk out of extraordinary situations. In 4 years I have only met 5 firefighters that I felt truly unsafe around. Everyone else... I trusted as much as I trusted myself.... more, because they were all 5-10 times smarter than I am.

I'm also sorry that some people don't realize that those whom they ridicule ... might well have crawled in and yanked their butt out of a bad situation. You never know. When a FF loses their life, while trying to save the lives of others, and prevent further disaster ... the situation warrants dignity and respect.

Thanks, Tiger.

Comment by Eric on January 11, 2009 at 2:31am

I just wanted to add that I see what lutan is saying and I would like to add my perspective on both sides of it. Before I do so, I want anyone that sees this to know that I am not trying to argue with anyone or take any sides. Again, this is just my point of view. I see where it looks like people are being left hanging out to dry. My understanding of how this is put is that people post close calls or heroism or anything else where someone goes through some kind of situation that they might not have survived, but did. Then, once these are posted people call them stupid, what they did stupid, or maybe they were called heroes or lucky by those that chose to defend them. And when in the same situation, another firefighter loses his or her life somewhere else, because they didn't have that little bit of luck on their side that made something fall the other way, or the floor or roof not collapse, we will always call them heroes. Why? Because they are. My opinion of people posting a close call or anything else that exemplifies someone not being where they should, being somewhere that they shouldn't or doing something that they shouldn't for others to see and form their opinions on is almost a sense of tough love. It (again in my opinion) shows a good example of brotherhood. It's kind of like an older brother (those who have been around this business for awhile and know what they are talking about) telling you're doing something wrong and then following it up by calling you stupid. Is it because he really thinks you're stupid? Well, maybe, but deep down, it's a tough love thing, where he doesn't want to see the little brother or sister fail or get hurt. I guess a good example of that is looking at the relationship of Brian and Steven in Backdraft. This shows up in alot of forums here on the nation when someone with years and years of experience looks at some of the videos or posts and says, why in God's name did that person do that, when they should've done it this way? On the other hand you get the ones who look at the same videos or posts and leaves it at simply "that was stupid" or "that persons an idiot". This type of posting to me is like the younger, nagging, brother or sister that sees their older sibling do something and simply calls them stupid or a jerk. Again, this is all just my opinion and how I view many things that I see. Though there are arguments and bickering, it all seems like brotherhood to me. People only end up hanging out to dry when they see what other people think or say about how they did something the wrong way and then do not learn from it. Tiger I apologize for making this so long, I just wanted to share my thoughts on what I've read in the back and forth discussion between yourself and lutan. Again, not arguing with anyone, just sharing my opinion. Thank you for your time.

Comment by Eric on January 11, 2009 at 1:38am

Very well done Tiger. I'm sure that this will help someone when they are asked "why" and they can't think of exactly how to respond to that question. Though I have only been a part of this brotherhood for a couple of years, I have been asked "why" in both my service in the fire deparment and I was even asked "why" by friends back home when I was in the army. It is always tough to answer and again, I believe that this piece will help people answer that question (even if they have to say wait a minute and I'll show you, just let me log on to the internet).

Comment by Tiger Schmittendorf on January 10, 2009 at 12:18am

Brother Joe -

As always, I appreciate your feedback.

Stay safe. Train often.

Comment by Joe Stoltz on January 7, 2009 at 10:32pm

Another masterpiece, Tiger. Excellent job!

JS

Comment by Beverly on January 7, 2009 at 7:33pm

If I could go back to the original post:
I think that as humans we have compassion for other humans BUT we tend to have more compassion for those who are most similar to ourselves. We can most easily relate to the pain, joy, fear etc. of those whose experiences are similar to experiences we ourselves have had. While I can feel empathy for someone who has lost a limb, I am fortunate to NOT be able to say " I know what you are going through." Present me with the story of someone who has had to put down their dog and I will feel that pain deep down as I just did that a few weeks ago. So, if you are able to relate to a total stranger it is through that common link, the experiences that you share, the parallel lives you lead, the subconscious "Thank God it wasn't me" and the conscious "What if that was me". If we fail to connect with others, if we emotionally isolate ourselves, than that is all the sadder for us, for we are more than just an isolated speck of dust in the universe.

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