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Comment by Wes Anders on May 4, 2008 at 12:19pm

I wished all firefighters felt like FASNY If we all pitch in and do our best for our community and our dept there wont be anytime for the back stabbing and the poltics, I respect the firefighters that give 110% theyve earned it and it can be a newbie as well a vet!

Comment by Tiger Schmittendorf on March 27, 2008 at 9:36pm

"Respect is something that is never just given away."

That's not necessarily true. I give away respect all the time. I just don't always get it in return...

Comment by Mary Ellen Shea on March 25, 2008 at 3:29pm

Respect flushes as soon as trust is violated. You cannot have one without the other and if you have one, you have the other. --xchief22

Well stated Art, and this is applicable in life, not just in the fire service.

As a newbie, rookie, probie, recruit...whatever you want to call someone who's still wet behind the ears, I'm happy to state that within my department, I am treated pollitely, respectfully, and with an open mind, and I do my level best every time I walk into the station house to treat my fellow members in an identical fashion.

Yes, there's a fair bit of kidding and teasing, but it's good -natured, not malicious, and I have never been made to feel anything less than welcomed. Am I valued yet? Probably not. I don't have enough time invested yet to have earned their trust and respect. They don't know me well enough yet, and I haven't had enough opportunities to prove my worth, and yes, I do believe that's something I will have to demonstrate before I'm fully accepted.

I look at this time as "freebie" time.....I'm still given a free pass when I do something stupid, but I am expected to learn from it and not repeat it. The entire fire service experience is a time to learn....when you stop trying, stop questioning, stop seeking, stop doing, stop learning, you stop living.
I will never know it all, nor will anyone else in my department, but they sure as heck know more than I do right now, and I'm completely open to the learning process as well as the vetting process.

Comment by Art "ChiefReason" Goodrich on March 25, 2008 at 12:42pm

For ones who know me, I have gained their respect and respect them in kind.
For those who don't "know" me, I feel that I must work to gain their trust and therefore, their respect.
And that is after 27 plus years. I don't expect the sea to part when I walk into a room, but I hope to make some waves before I leave.
For many of us, it is almost like a six sense; we can almost feel who we can trust and respect.
It may come from different reasons.
But in any case, it isn't automatic. If it was, think of the disappointments.
Respect flushes as soon as trust is violated. You cannot have one without the other and if you have one, you have the other.
And you don't have to treat someone like a piece of doo doo either because you can or because it's the fashionable thing to do. You don't build someone up by tearing them down.
TCSS.
Art

Comment by Jeff Betz on March 25, 2008 at 11:28am

Co913, you are absolutely correct, 2 kinds of respect. I find your observation as dead-on in my book. At our department we give new folks some good-natured garbage when they come in, while also providing nothing but support and begin their orientation from day one. The most senior people (including capt & Lt) will be mopping floors and other chores with the new folks. We are a small career department and have no use for too much old-fashioned hazing stuff, we need to depend on each other and that just gets in the way.

As for the earned type of respect, it goes both ways I believe. The officers need to provide their FF's with good reasons to be respected. Same goes for senior FF's with younger folks. Nothing makes me more mad than seeing some older folks demanding all this respect when they are the only "dead weight" we can see in the group. As for the newer FF's, they need to come in and give respect from the start in my book, they are joining us, we are not joining them. However, if they are not treated fairly, they have every right to re-evaluate how much respect they can give to the "pretenders" who give them a bad time.

All in all, its really as simple as the bible says: "do unto others as you would have done unto you". Pretty good words to live by in our fire service culture.

Comment by LadyChaplain on March 25, 2008 at 12:05am

I would love to give an honest comment... but I might ramble...

Comment by Engineco913 on March 24, 2008 at 11:27pm

Lutan,
I respect your fire service career, but I assure you not all departments are created (or run) equal. The fire department I joined 2 years ago embraced me, and has embraced every other member of the fire department who has joined in the time I have been here. They treat their members new and old well, because we are the ones who "supply the goods" so to speak.
If a fire department treats their probies as trash, they are much less willing to be around, and that defeats the purpose of brother/sisterhood.
As for my second post, your absolutely right. Not that long ago there were 2 firefighters in seperate unrelated incidents within the past 2 months in neighboring departments. (one arrested for Child Pornographyon his laptop the other arrested for molestation charges) In both incidents the media grasped the fact they were firefighters because it makes a bigger story.
I guess there is a fine line between respect and trust. When your trusted you gain respect, but if you have no respect you will gain no trust. Kind of a one hand washes the other scenerio

Comment by Tiger Schmittendorf on March 24, 2008 at 11:15pm

Your line of thinking follows Mick Mayers blog on RESPECT: http://www.firefighternation.com/profiles/blog/show?id=889755%3ABlogPost%3A405496

You are absolutely correct about trust. If you can't trust someone with your back in the firehouse, how are you supposed to trust them with your life on the fireground?

Comment by lutan1 on March 24, 2008 at 11:12pm

How do you earn respect when members are coming into new departments and being told from day 1 they aren't worth a pich of s**t?

In relation to your second post, you don't have to go to far back in history, only a couple of weeks in fact and this stuff is still going on and is still causing the departments a whole raft of grief and pain.

Comment by Engineco913 on March 24, 2008 at 5:13pm

One startling fact to consider for the naysayers who feel that respect is automatically given.....

Go back in history and look at the cases where firefighters made PR nightmares for their departments. I know it isn't always the case, but look at the illegal use of narcotics, the sexual abuse, the domestic violence, and all the other crimes that are commited by people who became firefighters. We have evolved to cover our own butts now by completing background checks. (well you should be anyway) How would you have felt if you had just given them the respect level only to be shocked by the findings of the news media or a repeat occurance which becomes a news nightmare?