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Window attack.
It was brought up at a discussion at training about a quick window fog stream attack prior to interior attack on a confirmed room and content fire, what is everyones thoughts on this?
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by capcityff on
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Still doesnt answer if people are in there. Either way if the room is on fire then go in and put it out. I don't get how this is so confusing for some people.
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Permalink Reply by Jeff Cole on
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"Go inside and put the fire out". Broad statement.
There are variations on variations. As Jack said "Conditions"...
Ironic but I just founf my copy of Layman's book "Attacking and extinguishing interior fires". It's still a fun read. The last few pages indicate that htere wasn't concern for the effects on victims inside.
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Permalink Reply by Pararescue on
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Cheaper materials, and short cuts in new build construction are becoming the norm. Contractors find as many ways to get around the codes cheaply as there are codes. You can take a code enforcement book to any new build and you'll find that code's now seem to be guide lines. Building construction in books is a completely different beast then what is done on the construction site.
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Again, we are so far off topic it isn't even funny. Capcityff cant even get a response to an on topic question.
"It was brought up at a discussion at training about a quick window fog stream attack prior to interior attack on a confirmed room and content fire, what is everyones thoughts on this?"
We are taught to fight fires from the unburned portion to the burned portion. At every fire we encounter we should have one crew on the line and a second doing a search no matter if everyone is reported out of the structure. As more resources arrive, tasks are assigned. If you have to make an exterior attack, the building should be fully involved. No one should lose their house to a one room burn out that ff's didn't go into and it extended thorough out. That is just unacceptable, period! The scenario said nothing about freelancing, open or closed doors. Just what our thoughts were. Mine is get in the house and keep the fire in check. Make a fast knock and open up for any extension. We have the tools, and knowledge. If you cant adapt to over come a room and contents fire... hang it up.
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Cap we're so far off topic, again, that know one is even addressing the the question. I just posted on page 4... This is my take. I hope I think it addresses your restated question. lol
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Agreed. Some guys are such "safety sallies" now that they think that just because there might be no one inside, there's no point on an aggressive attack. I don't know about you guys bought I thought I swore to protect both lives AND PROPERTY. If you can't handle that then maybe this isn't the job for you.
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Permalink Reply by Loren Shane Fields on
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I dont feel as if this accomplish anything personally. The way that the question is stated, it would seem as if you are suggesting to horizontally ventilate a window (if it hasnt done so), spray a quick fog stream into the room, then continue to make an interior attack and finish fire suppression operations.
Now, my outtake is that two things could possibly go wrong:
1. Even though it may be confined to room and contents, you risk the possibility to initiate a backdraft by suddenly introducing air into the room (Granted its an oxygen-defecient environment inside). Without knowing this for sure, it sounds like a huge risk to take just to safe something that is already lost.
2. Doing this could possibly upset the thermal layering thats been forming inside the room, thus causing more damage to the house because of fire extention.
Without knowing for sure whats going on inside the room, I wouldnt feel comfortable telling my crew to ventilate first. At least if you make the interior attack, they can fall back on their training on how to handle that IDLH situation from the other side of the door.
Hope you find this useful.
"Train as if your life depends on it -- it does!"
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Permalink Reply by Jack/dt on
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Jason,
Cheaper materials mean less cost for the builder or buyer. Which short cuts are you talking about? There are always shortcuts to something, it's a question of are they saving time and money or contributing to a cheap build.
As for getting around the codes, that is entirely dependent upon the town building department, town codes and inspectors. Around here, once the rough framing is done it needs to be signed off, again after electrical and plumbing rough-ins. Building inspectors around here take their job and the codes seriously. If you're seeing contractors taking shortcuts, it's because the inspectors aren't doing their job; it has nothing to do with materials or methods.
Your statement about the difference between building construction in the books and on the job site is valid, but only to a point. How one roofs a house is pretty much the way it is from the book and on the job. How many nails are used for each shingle is code-dependent (4 nails for a 3 tab shingle here). Will roofers skip nails? Maybe, but if they do, it has nothing to do with cheaper materials, it's someone not doing a professional job in order to save themselves some time on the job.
"Changes in construction of all structures, commercial and residential are being undermined due to the current state of the economy?'
You made the above broad sweeping statement without any facts to back you up other than your opinion. You have yet to explain how the current state of the economy is undermining ...all structures, commercial and residential ...?"
I strongly question your knowledge of basic building construction. A contractor doesn't choose to use thinner drywall unless the code calls for it. By the way, 5/8 drywall is required here and is fire rated for one hour. If an application is required to be 1 hour fire rated, 5/8" drywall has to be used, if it isn't then the contractor (or sub) is ripping someone off. It's not the economy, it's the fly-by-night sub that's undermining "...all structures, commercial and residential."
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Permalink Reply by Charles Wilson on
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If you want to push the fire deeper in to the unburned part of the structure, we have an area department that’s great at saving the foundations and this is one of their tactics because they don’t want to risk getting hurt...
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Permalink Reply by Ben Waller on
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It's not confusing at all. When the room is flashed over, there is no chance of a rescue.
At that point, it's time to assess the structural conditions prior to just blindly entering the structure to extinguish, particularly if the initial response doesn't have the manpower to support the interior attack and/or if compromised lightweight construction is involved.
When you have a massive initial response, solidly built structures, and short response times, that is generally not a problem. Unfortunately, in many places it is a problem more often than not.
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...unless the structure is so compromised that entry is suicidal. Don't commit suicide for a structure - any structure.
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False dilemma.
There are many other options besides those two extremes.
There are many other variables that are different from the ones faced by your department.
As with anything else we do, size-up, structural conditions, fire conditions, and an observant, intelligent, and rapid risk-benefit assessment are the intelligent ways to determine if you should situationally do an interior attack or not.
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