Who is incharge In the Absence of a Volunteer Officer?

Our small Volunteer Fire Department's by-laws state that if no officer is present the senior firefighter is in the IC position until a officer arrives on scene, this is fine, but the discussion comes, when asked if "senior" means years of service, or training. My personal opinion would be that if a Firefighter 1 and a 20 year member with little training are the first on scene, I believe they would work together but the Firefighter 1 should have command. What does anyone else believe on this?

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Permalink Reply by Art "ChiefReason" Goodrich on March 17, 2009 at 9:09am
Our by-laws state that in the absence of an officer, the senior firefighter is in charge until command is passed.
If you have senior firefighters who aren't capable of running a scene, then they should never have gotten to BE senior firefighters.
That is a failure of your department.
The scene is NOT the place to split hairs. "I am in charge because I have FFI." "Really? Well, I have FFI and HazMat Awareness, so I am in charge". "I have FFI, HazMat AND EVOC".
You get the point.
If your by-laws aren't producing the desired results, then change them. You want to have a clear picture when the tones drop; not when you get to the scene.
Good luck.
Art
Permalink Reply by John on March 17, 2009 at 9:09am
I think it should be the most senior position with qualification in fire tactics, whether that means a 20 year vet or someone with a couple of years, doesn't matter as long as they are competent.
Permalink Reply by rfdjumper on March 17, 2009 at 9:38am
The 20 year guy would be in command. I'd take a 20 year guy who has seen 20 years worth of fire over a new guy who has a class that teaches you how to throw ladders and pull hose. Firefighter 1 guy should worry about learning the craft and not being the boss.

I concur with Chief Art, By laws and SOP's should take care of this before it gets to the scene.
Permalink Reply by Tony P on March 17, 2009 at 9:45am
Having rules that cover this evantuality is the only way to manage the situation.

For us, if no officer has arrived then command falls on any non-officer crew-leader qualified FF. If no crew leader then any other member of the Brigade Management Team (perhaps the Secreatary or Communications Officer). The driver/pump operator is next as a member cannot drive until they've /been around' for a while. It works, everyone understands. Everyone understands because it's 'in the rules'.
Permalink Reply by Paul Montpetit on March 17, 2009 at 11:19am
If no officers are present then the Senior Firefighter on scene takes command until someone his senior shows up....it really isn't that difficult to figure out...Senior in years of experience and training......Paul
Smoke EaterPermalink Reply by Smoke Eater on March 17, 2009 at 2:39pm
I would have to go with the guy who has more time not more certs. Almost anyone can pass a class but how many can actually do the job when it comes time to do it? I've seen people pass tests but when faced with actually going in they freak out.
Permalink Reply by Fireyladd - Retired Chief Sharp on March 17, 2009 at 10:14pm
I would believe that the "Senior" member would indeed meen oldest ranking firefighter with the ability to lead. A person may be the highest ranking firefighter but have no ability to communicate or lead and thus little to no support from others. Main thing is to make sure everyone stays safe.
Permalink Reply by Fire Chick on March 18, 2009 at 12:22am
ours goes by who has been there the longest
Permalink Reply by Tony P on March 18, 2009 at 5:50am
A point to ponder. Someone who has been around for 20 or 30 years but has no "certificates" is the person most likely to know all the wrong ways to do it - things have changed.
Permalink Reply by Ray Swanson on March 18, 2009 at 8:48am
Ok, I agree with the more years of service guy being in charge, but supoose the guy is a 40+ year member and is showing signs of literally loosing it, and nobody says anything to him, because of this and being a past chief, and he consistenly assumes command over a younger. Suppose loosing tools from one minute to the next at the station turns into loosing firefighters on the scene? I'm just thinking that a guy with this experience, who takes a supply engine alone to a fire, and then BLOCKS THE DRIVEWAY so the attack engine can't get in, and then walks away, maybe he shouldn't be in command. This is based on true actions.
Permalink Reply by Matthew Mayette on March 18, 2009 at 8:56am
in our by laws states a past officer is in command
Permalink Reply by Dustin J. Millis on March 18, 2009 at 8:57am
Art said it best... the idea of the "senior" FF taking command is pretty much a world wide concept if there is no officer present. Bylaws should then define what your dept. believes a senior FF is. Nobody likes writing, changing, or voting on bylaws but its something that must be kept up on

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