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Who is incharge In the Absence of a Volunteer Officer?
Our small Volunteer Fire Department's by-laws state that if no officer is present the senior firefighter is in the IC position until a officer arrives on scene, this is fine, but the discussion comes, when asked if "senior" means years of service, or training. My personal opinion would be that if a Firefighter 1 and a 20 year member with little training are the first on scene, I believe they would work together but the Firefighter 1 should have command. What does anyone else believe on this?
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Chief 29 on
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Explain how this guy got to be an officer! What qualifications does he have to drive and or operate the pump?
It sounds to me that there is a problem within your company and it is self inflicted. Obviously he got to be an officer by a majority vote or he was appointed by the Chief. If your company does not yet have any SOP's/SOG's to keep these sorts of things from happening then you will continue to have the same problems. If you have them but don't follow them shame on your officers and maybe it's time to look at updating them. The SOP's/SOG's as well as your officers.
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Permalink Reply by RICK on
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Ray,
The way our department works is that the Driver of the first Truck on scene is in command until an officer arrives. However if there is no officer on scene the Driver starts as command and if they feel like they need to pass command there passenger or the driver of the second truck is who command is turned over too. To be able to drive our trucks you have to have FF2 and be on for two years. Hope this helps.
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Permalink Reply by Art "ChiefReason" Goodrich on
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A question for the group and especially those who are saying that they have long term members who don't know enough to lead an incident:
WHY ARE THEY STILL ON THE DEPARTMENT?
Instead of complaining about having someone incompetent in charge, then do something about it.
It's been that way for how long? SO WHAT! That doesn't make it right or better.
People come on here and blast their own departments and that makes for interesting discussions, but for God's sake, take something BACK to your department and CHANGE IT!
When I was younger, we did just that. WE changed it. It was lonely in the beginning, but it continued to grow until we took control and got our department headed in the right direction. Yeah; we bitched alot but we also knew that we weren't going to allow it to stay that way for long. Contrary to opinion, Swedes DO have tempers.
If your people are showing signs of the early stages of senility, Alzheimers, dementia ; then fix it.
Same deal with goofy or stupid. Don't let someone else get you hurt or killed. I would much rather hurt someone else's ego than to have that ego hurt me. Screw that.
Make a change.
TCSS.
Art
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Permalink Reply by Paulie on
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Get rid of em? Look there are plenty of FOGs (acronymn..figure it out) in the fire service still that have alot to offer any department other then fireground duties. Getting rid of them because thier bodies haved betrayed em will be doing your department a disservice. Make em Safety officers, or Health and wellness officers. Let them run your accuntability. Don't kick them out and lose that vast well of knowledge.
If thier truly are guys on any Dept. that after 20+ years can't get water from a truck, thats a whole different story
It sounds like the department in question which has sparked this conversation does not have an "old guy" problem it has a command competency problem. In a properly ran department everyone knows who should be in charge in leiu of an officer being on scene. FYG's - wait your turn, if your as competent as you make yourself out to be you'll be a firefighting officer real soon.
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Permalink Reply by John Rulli Jr. on
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In my dept the driver has command if there is no officer present.
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Permalink Reply by Timothy D. Stone Jr on
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If no officer then the first person on scene is command till a senior member shows up. Now your gonna ask what about a non trained person showing up and being command and not knowing what to do...In Davis you must have training to get a radio.
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Permalink Reply by Tim Wood on
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At our fd if no line officers are there the driver of the first truck is the IC. He has the choice of keeping it or handing over to another veteran ff.
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Permalink Reply by Jason Koontz on
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Training is awesome, but experience is better. I mean reallyy, how ready were you to command a scene the day after you graduated your first training class, whether it be firefighter 1 or whatever. I've run plenty of scenes, but that was after a few years working, lots of command training, and a Chief and two Captains who held my hand through the easy ones, then let me build from there. Senior firefighters shouldn't depend on years or training. Being a Senior Firefighter should depend upon ability to do the job, run a scene, whatever.
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Permalink Reply by Tim Brumbaugh on
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I agree with you If you have more training whether you have been with the dept for 1 year or 20 years The firefighter with the most training should be in command until an officer arrives on the scene This is my opinion anyways
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Permalink Reply by Jay Nicholson on
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Speaking from experience, this is a bad idea. There are many people, who can not take book learning and apply it to the field. This is very true of the rookie/newbie types. It takes training AND experience.
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Permalink Reply by Ray Swanson on
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i am a FF1 and not all of it has happenened yet, but blocking the driveway, walking away has, but the command issue could happen in 30 seconds, you know, but our by-laws/SOPs just say senior it does not mention if this is training, or years of service, it has often been an issue at drills and meetings, and i wondered what everyone else thought
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