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Water. On-board or hydrant?
In one of Chris Naum's threads, there are people talking about getting water into the pump. Some attack immediately with the water on-board, others will always get a line to a hydrant to guarantee water right from the start. With us, the first pumper on-scene will start an attack first, if crew are available (this depends on how many made it for the first truck and what tasks have to be performed) then someone will be dragging a feed line to the nearest hydrant. However, the second pumper is usually right behind the first and will normally run a feed line to the first pumper to add their on-board supply, giving a little time to the hydrant crew. Do any other people do things this way? Feed the second in vehicle's water into the first arriving?
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Just Plain Craig Moyer on
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Since my house is one of the highest in the district (small district) I would look out the windows for smoke. Also as we're responding I would always try to go past a hydrant if possible. Another factor is that the next engine is usually only 4-6 minutes behind us. (Learn to listen to the radio, kids) With 1000 gallons pushing one line the tank should last 5-8 minutes. I always pulled a two inch line for a quick connect to the next engine until the hydrant is ready.
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Permalink Reply by Nathan Whoric on
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we normally have 2 engines on seem right after each other and a tanker right behind. then a 3rd comes off the mtn plus the 2 engines coming in on mutual aid plus another tanker if we need it. normally first truck attacks 2nd drops a guy off and pulls line to first due. the only time we have a water problem is in bear rocks (mountain area) with only a few hydrants and a few semi dry hydrants which u have to suction from. but with mutual aid right behind us with multiple engines and atleast 3 tankers maybe 4 on mtn calls so unless its a huge fire we are normally good with water
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Permalink Reply by Edward Fleming on
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We don't have Hydrants in our district so we rely on our apparatus we have to pull lines and hit the fire with our first due engine.
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Permalink Reply by Chris on
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Our pumpers carry 2000l. We get to work, the pump operator will organise water in as soon as he can, unless a second arriving pump operator helps out
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Permalink Reply by John Schander on
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Doesn't matter for us, no hydrants, all water comes off the trucks.
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Permalink Reply by Jeff Cole on
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Although the key to successful operations is the availability of options, as a rule I personally don't agree with passing a hydrant on the way in that is within a reasonable distance and obviosuly within your supply hose limitations. I know many departments begin using the tank and use the second-due engine for the hydrant supply.
Establishing a continuous water supply is the very basic responsibility of the engine company. Staffing will certainly impact tactics. However depending upon a second-due company that isn't there yet CAN have a very serious impact on operations should something prevent that second-due from arriving in a timely mannor, or arriving at all.
Much of it will depend on the amount of on-board water available too.
With a first-due average of 500 gallons on-board, it is our standard to never pass a hydrant. Providing staffing is at 4, the hydrant will at the minimum be "wrapped" on the way in. Fires that are defensive from the start, as with heavy involvement will have hydrant position remain and finsih the connection and flow water to the pump. Dwelling fires within a reasonable distance, say 300' that present with likely confinement and control with one or two lines, that have questionable occupany may have the hydrant wrapped, with the finsih to be completed by second-arriving companies. But the line is at least laid out.
Fire with reported or known entrappement will preclude the first-due from stopping at a hydrant, as the entire crew will begin the required work. The key to success is communications, training, drilling, and understand, critique, and refining operations.
The time-frame of average second-due companies is also a key factor. Usually our second-due is within two minutes, possibly three after the arrival of the first-due. With a crew of four on the initial, it is projected that the on-board water supply will not be depelted within this time frame when using a single 1.75" line. But with any heavy or "blitz" attack, that changes.
This is the whole reason why being flexible is so important. "Always" procedures don't always address the entire scope of potentials for any given incident.
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Permalink Reply by Yagoub A. Yagoub on
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Here in my work place (OIL REFINERY) we use water from Hydrant.
Except small fire we use mini pumper Water on-board
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Permalink Reply by Robert on
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We only have four hydrants in town. So if the fire is near one the second due lays the hydrant. If we are out of town the tanker is usually right behind the engine. And according to location we either nurse using 21/2 or layout a drop tank, and pull hard suction.
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Permalink Reply by Fireyladd - Retired Chief Sharp on
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With 1000 Gallons on our initial response engine we usually will start fighting the fire depending on what it is and then have the second in truck hook up and bring us a line in to supply the first engine. Or we will catch the hydrant on the way in. Just depends on what we have working and size-up of our officer. When in doubt get a water supply.
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Permalink Reply by John Rulli Jr. on
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We do it about the same way.
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I failed to mention that our main engine has a 1250 gallon tank. for initial attack operations before the water supply is set. Of course with a 1200 gpm pump that does not last long.
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